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Quran & Sunnah
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Quran & Sunnah
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2005 at 6:14am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bimsillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

the exact words are "if all the books of islam were to disapear", i include the Quran in this.

Assalamualaikum Rami,

I posed a question regarding this above statement of yours to a qualified shaikh. I am sharing with you the response I received.

As for the question, the statement you mentioned was made by a number of the greatest scholars after Imam Ghazali, and transmitted with approval by numerous others.

It is an established interpretative principle that one understands the words and actions of others in a way that makes them sound and proper whenever that is possible without engaging in something exaggeratedly far-fetched. This is entailed by the command in the Qur’an and Sunna to maintain a good opinion (husn al-dhann) of others.

As such, the statement, “If all the books of Islam were to disappear,” is understood to mean: “If all the books authored in Islam were to disappear, the Ihya would be sufficient.” The Qur’an is not a book that is authored by a human; and it won’t disappear, by Divine Promise.

Secondly, this statement is not meant literally. It is a case of hyperbole—making an exaggerated statement to make a point. Such hyperbole is part of the rhetoric of Arabic, and examples of it abound in the words of our Beloved Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).

 

And Allah alone gives success. Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani

Maa salaama.

 

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2005 at 6:43am

It is an established interpretative principle that one understands the words and actions of others in a way that makes them sound  proper whenever that is possible without engaging in something exaggeratedly far-fetched. This is entailed by the command in the Qur’an and Sunna to maintain a good opinion (husn al-dhann) of others.

Very nice indeed.

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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2005 at 5:58pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

All i said is that if the Quran where to disapear the Ihyah would be enough to guide us Not that the Ihyah was better than the Quran or even compared to it.

What was the exact Question you asked sister?

I interpreted the statment wrongly that is not a big issue. I dont see why it is a problamatic statment, maybe you could explain that further what was being pointed out was the level of guidance found in the Ihya ie it would be enough to keep us on the correct path if the source of guidance the Quran was to disapear.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2005 at 6:26am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

All i said is that if the Quran where to disapear the Ihyah would be enough to guide us Not that the Ihyah was better than the Quran or even compared to it.

Even to mention the disappearance of the Quran in a supposition is not correct. Because we should not suppose things contrary to the facts layed in the Quran. In the Quran for a fact, there is a promise for its preservation - then why should one have to make an equation where "supposedly" it will disappear.

I understand that you are not saying, the Book is going to disappear, but why even suppose an "if" regarding this matter, when there is a clear promise that such a thing will never happen?

Originally posted by rami

What was the exact Question you asked sister?

The exact question was that I know someone who includes the Quran among "all the books of islam", so what is his (Sidi Faraz's) opinion on this matter.

Originally posted by rami

I interpreted the statment wrongly that is not a big issue. I dont see why it is a problamatic statment, maybe you could explain that further what was being pointed out was the level of guidance found in the Ihya ie it would be enough to keep us on the correct path if the source of guidance the Quran was to disapear.

You went a little overboard while explaining the level of guidance in the Ihya. That was one problem. The other one was the supposition which I have stated above.

The level of guidance in any book cannot equal the quran. The reason is that the Quran is not just words. The blessings, the mercies, and the hidayah that decends on a mo'min while reading the quran are because it is the word of Allah.

Portions of the Quran are recited for its special effects on the nafs, and the heart. Those special effects do guide the heart in a special way - it cannot be done by anyother book. Now the question for me is, without these special effects on the heart, will the guidance from a substitute be enough? I do not believe it.

If I were to consider the knowledge of the deen contained in the Ihya, on a practical platform ... yes I have read eulogies on the Ihya itself, and am familiar to some extent with the work. But there is a spiritual platform as well which I cannot ignore ... on this spiritual platform, it is not the same as the Quran.

Besides this, just for an example consider the chapter in the Ihya that deals with how one should deal with the Quran (let me know if you are looking for a reference). This very chapter, which I think is in book 21, will lose its exact utility if we were to include the Quran among "all the books in Islam".

Forgive me, but for reasons like these, I saw your statement a little bit over.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



Edited by Nausheen
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2005 at 6:30am

Brother Rami,u should care these advices,being the fan of Ihya does not fit a wised brother as u are...please look at to the issue from Qur'an and it's precious level...wa salaam....

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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2005 at 6:35am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by Suleyman

Brother Rami,u should care these advices,being the fan of Ihya does not fit a wised brother as u are...please look at to the issue from Qur'an and it's precious level...wa salaam....

Suleyman, I understand your emotions, but please remember, calling someone a "fan" on a topic like this is derogatory, because the Ihya indeed is a masterpeice unparalleled.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



Edited by Nausheen
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Suleyman
 
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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2005 at 7:01am

Sister Nausheen, my words are not in the name derogating brother Rami, as from the opposite side my words mean about him that "Brother Rami, i really appreciate ur wisdom on Islam but when it comes to these kind of issues there are some problems inside the knowledge of Qur'an,u are capable of understanding"....the Ihya is the first book when i have first entered to Islam...of course a good book,THE BOOK WRITTEN FOR HONORING QUR'AN"....i love broderich Rami...no more addings from me...best regards...

"Let Good Let Success and Let Happiness...Emerge..." Musharraf told today, who can say that i don't know english after this composition made by Musharraf....



Edited by Suleyman
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 20 November 2005 at 3:45am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

From Ibn Kathir's work on the subject,

greater signs of the Hour.

• The destruction of the Ka'bah and the recovery of its treasure.
• The rising of the sun from the west.
• The emergence of the Beast from the earth.
• The smoke.
• A wind will take the souls of the believers.
The Qur'aan will be taken up into heaven.
• A fire will drive the people to their last gathering place.
• The Trumpet will be sounded: at the first sound everyone will   feelterror; at the second sound all will be struck down; at the last sound all will be resurrected.

i was thinking of this when i said the above. Not just the Quran as a book will be taken up but any letter of it in any book it will also be erased from the minds of men they will go to sleep knowing it and wake up knowing nothing. At that time it will be sufficient for them to say allah allah and the hour will not come as long as allah allah is still being said on earth.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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