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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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mohammad
 
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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:28am

I am surprised to see the many posts under this topic that how our brothers explain the natural disaster (like earthquake in Pakistani Kashmir) & how are they trying to find the reasons of such type of catastrophe.

I was never think that in this forum we can discuss in such of way in which we  hurt the feeling of ours brothers & sisters, those are right now suffering & facing one of the worst natural disaster in Pakistani (Kashmir) or the survivor of tsunami or Irene survivor by the earth quake instead of show with them the sympathies. Un fortunately I was off from the last 5 or 6 days from this forum that’s why I deprived to wrote any thing in time under this topic.

Actually I want to reply the so many posts which posted under this topic bcz I saw this topic very late and also the direction of discussion is now any other side that’s why I am taking only one post to reply.

(Note) I am very sorry if anyone feel uncomfortable due to the my post.

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mohammad
 
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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:31am

Abeer Wrote

Think about the destruction of the people of sayyiduna Lut (A.S), sayyiduna Nuh (Noah a.s), the Aad, and the Thamud.  Don't you think there were innocent children amongst them as well??? “

 

Brother Abeer please can you explain how you compare the your mentioned incidents with  the current earth quake. The nations which you mentioned in your post they were completely destroyed due to the totally condemnation of the message of Allah & they were openly neglecting the Allah’s orders but this is out of mine understanding that how you compare the same situation in Kashmir.      Al Hamdulila in Kashmir purely all are the Muslims those have the strong belief on Allah & his Rasool Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h),. However being a human we can not claim that we all are very pious and very straight life, we are not angels, we are human, but Allah’s knows well.

Do you know at the time of earthquake more than 5,000 thousands students are in the seminaries (Religious schools commonly known as Madres) among them 2185 students died due to this catastrophe, probably most of them were reciting the Quran at that’s stage when this calamity was occurred.

D0 you know at the moment of disaster more than 25,000 thousnads students are in the universities, collages and schools, majority of them have been lost their life & among this majority, around 4321 students have been died those were not just touch their fifteen years.

May be Allah put this problem on us to check our patience that my beloved creature can bear the such type of natural disaster with the patience, this is only Allah knows, but we should try to see the things in the positive way.  I requested all of you to Pray for us that take off this trouble on overhead, bcz we are very weak, & we are not able to bear any Allah’s send trouble a long time.

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Abeer23
 
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Quote Abeer23 Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2005 at 9:30am

As salamu alaikum bro. Mohamed.   Did you read all of my post?  Did you understand the context of my statement?  If not, I'll explain again in sha allah. 

I was responding to a statement made by someone regarding Allah's wrath affecting innocent children (in general).    I simply made the point that they are affected, as is evident in numerous stories in the Quran.    I was not trying to put Pakistani muslims down.   I think if you read my post again you'll recognize that.  

Now it's my turn to complain.  Why do people keep calling me "brother???"  You guys are starting to give me a complex.  Abeer, is a girl's name   

Salaam

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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2005 at 4:12pm

Assalam-alaikum Br Mohammed

The discussion that we have had on this thread is based on the verses Allah has revealed to us in the Qur'an. We are not making a judgement on anyone. The people who died may be far better individuals than oursleves. But the fact that so many Muslims have been affected by many of the calamities that Allah has sent upon mankind in recent times, should make us reflect. He can achieve whatever He wishes in no time. These are His signs and we are to reflect and correct ourselves as He has given us the opportunity to witness these terrible disasters. We know from the Sunnah that the Ummah is like one body. If one part of the body hurts the whole body hurts. Allah has not told those of us who have not been directly touched by this calamity that it will not happen to us. Allah has said in Surah Mulk:

067.016:Do ye feel secure that He Who is in heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes (as in an earthquake)? 
067.017:Or do ye feel secure that He Who is in Heaven will not send against you a violent tornado (with showers of stones), so that ye shall know how (terrible) was My warning? 

None of us knows what fate ours will be. It is for us to reflect upon His signs and to correct ourselves and to admonish each other. We know the Muslim Ummah is in a really bad state. Almost everyday we hear of suicide bombings and killing of innocent people. Allah has never sanctioned the killing of innocent people. We point the finger of blame at others but we don't look at ourselves. We also know that  Muslim lands abound in corruption, lies, theft, frivolity and all sorts of injustice. Now the calamities that have befallen us should make us look at ourselves - our deeds, our thoughts our behaviour. If we still ignore these signs and continue to blame others the loss is ours alone.



 

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mohammad
 
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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2005 at 12:44am
Dear maryga

Thanks for details explanation, in fact I wrote that post in the emotional way. Actually I am directly affected by this calamity & I have been lost many close relatives & sharp friends. Anyhow the matter is cleared.

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mohammad
 
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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2005 at 12:47am

Sister you refer me to see the all post of your’s but I found only one post which I have already posted & objected mine. Anyhow the issue is over now & I don’t want to discuss more on this.

 

Regarding of your complain I must apologized to you to call you brother       in lieu of sister. Assured you next time I will not do same.  Again I am looking pardon from my dear sister Abeer.

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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2005 at 5:01pm

Br Mohammed

May Allah grant Jannat to all your relatives, friends and those others who have lost their lives and may He forgive all their sins. And May He give you the strength to bear the loss and the strength and motivation to pray and spread the truth and goodness, Ameen!

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Quote Skswsdom Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2005 at 7:49pm

Originally posted by MrsK

As we all know there are evil people in the world and these evil people claim to be many different things (i.e., so-called Christians who bomb abortion clinics, murderers, rapists and thieves who would claim to be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.).


The question that I have is that when people claiming to be adherents of Islam also claim responsibility for acts of violence (or terrorism which ever word you prefer) and they claim this responsibility in the name of Islam - in your opinion, is the general response one of approval or one of anger?


Have there been responses condemning these acts and the use (or misuse) of Islam as the justification for them?


I do not recall seeing media coverage of any such statements.  I suppose I am hoping that you can direct me to something that I either I have missed or that has simply not received media attention.


Thank you for your time.    

In the Name of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful...

 

Asalaamu Alaykum MrsK,

 

I offer this previous post by way of response. I hope it is of some assistance to you ...

 

“The essence of civilization is the orderly quest for truth, the rational perception of reality and all its facets, and the adaptation of man's behavior to its laws. So long as we follow the path of reason, we shall not move far from the lighted circle of civilization. Its enemies invariably lie among those who, for whatever motive, deny, distort, minimize, exaggerate or poison the truth, and who falsify the processes of reason. At all times civilization has its enemies, though they are constantly changing their guise and their weapons. The great defensive art is to detect and unmask them before the damage they inflict becomes fatal. 'Hell.' wrote Thomas Hobbes, 'is truth seen too late.' Survival is falsehood detected in time.”

 

“Civilization is the rational pursuit of truth within a framework of order. The discovery of truth, of course, is part of this ordering process, the way by which man located himself in the universe. This is a very long, complicated, and cumulative process. Man needs to orientate himself in time, by discovering and perfecting chronology; in space, by acquiring geographical and astronomical knowledge; in nature, by discovering its laws and using them to master his environment. He is also engaged in a continuous effort of moral and social orientation, reflected in his attempts to improve his designs for civil government, for legal and ethical codes, and his image of what a just society should be. There is, likewise, a process of moral ordering, in which man seeks to discover his worth in relation to other men, and to the potentialities of his surroundings. Human beings need to know where they stand in all these matters, for such knowledge is an essential element in their security, and in their happiness.”

 

“Truth is much more than a means to expose the malevolent. It is the great creative force of civilization. For truth is knowledge; and a civilized man is one who, in Hobbes' words, has a "perseverance of delight in the continual and indefatigable generation of knowledge." Hobbes also writes: "Joy, arising from imagination of a man's own power and ability, is that exaltation of mind called glorying." And so it is; for the pursuit of truth is our civilization's glory, and the joy we obtain from it is the nearest we shall approach to happiness, at least on this side of the grave. If we are steadfast in this aim, we need not fear the enemies of society.”

 

Paul Johnson wrote this in his much praised novel “The Enemies of Society”. It is a fascinating treatise concerning the evolution of the community of man, the length of which I won’t go into either in praise of or quoting more thereof; the above is the essence of his work. What I gained from this, what is important to me is the relevance it has to society’s constant problem; how do we coexist with each other? In the world, there is good and evil; between them lie the varying degrees of action which consummate human decisions, i.e. either one advocates towards the good in this decision, one chooses the other in that decision…etc. What is written in response is an advocation of the former. In the Middle East and much of the Muslim world, there is no voice such as this. Even in America, the common man (so to speak) has at least the “perception” of this type of voice. Ultimately of course what the world sees is seen through the lens of the status quo. The lens through which the current US administration is focused is obviously  disconcerting, based solely on the impetus and justification of retaliatory measures to 911. What the American people see of this is filtered through a  “heightened anxiety driven” or “heightenedly aware” (take your pick) press, and this from sources supplied by a status quo controlled press. It is dangerously assumptive and patently unjust to say that this is the general opinion of the American people. I don’t believe this to be right, but it is the way it is.

 

We could live in a world where dialogue, specifically faith-driven interfaith dialogue, could facilitate the fostering of relationships to promote understanding. We could regard one another as kindred spirits, whose true boundaries are that as struggling souls rather than within the perception of the man-made boundaries of nationalism. We could, if we tried. I feel for my brother when he says that American troops occupy his homeland yet  believe me when I say there are brothers and sisters here in America who rail and rally against the occupations of Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world day after day. There are efforts towards fostering Peace. In the ideal world which Paul Johnson described, what he wrote is true. In an ideal world, what we as Muslims should attempt to do ‘inshAllah is exactly what he said, to apply the “ … great defensive art … to detect and unmask them before the damage they inflict becomes fatal” by enjoining the good and preventing evil. In an ideal world, there are people working together towards a civilization with the same depth and determination that Paul Johnson wrote. There are those who seek “… the rational pursuit of truth within a framework of order”.

 

Unfortunately,  we don’t live in an ideal world.

 

We live in a world where the world over Muslims struggle daily for the bare necessities of mere subsistence. We live in a world where the voice of the Muslim is two-fold, either as a quiet majority who observes or survives oppression everywhere, quietly lamenting in acquiescence or as a proactive, violent minority which commits acts of  self justified barbarism. We live in the world the Prophet Muhammad (peace_be_upon_him) described in the Hadith Narrated by Thawban: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts. Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death.  (Book #37, Hadith #4284).

 

We also who live, live in a world of Hope.

 

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious The Most Merciful …

 

Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.  (Chapter #2, Verse #218)

 

Allah made it but a message of hope for you, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah. The Exalted, the Wise:  (Chapter #3, Verse #126)

 

If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah. Allah and His Messenger will soon give us of His bounty: to Allah do we turn our hopes!" (that would have been the right course).  (Chapter #9, Verse #59)

 

We hope that our Lord will give us in exchange a better (garden) than this. Truly, we turn to our Lord (wishing for good that He may forgive our sins, and reward us in the Hereafter)."  (Chapter #68, Verse #32)

 

We have a Destiny to fulfill and not a Fate to suffer ... A Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatu wa Bihamdihi
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