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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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bullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 5:33am

He is getting these info from some hate website.

Thank you "AbRah2006" for proving me right.

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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 12:44am

I must apologize for my absence as I was busy in a debate that required my full attention, I am not getting information from any hate site, but directly from shia source, inshallah hence forth I will make sure  that I do not make any quote with out a link or shia source [refrence]


Let see how "infalible" imam speak about verse of Quran. The verse is this one

When imam Abu Abdullah was asked, how this verse was revealed, he said: " .
This is Quran----3/110. "You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah".
And this is the version of imam---You are the best of the imams raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah.
(Tafsir Kashani, vol 1 p370)
( Tafsir Qummi vol 1, p 36)


Let us see the name of the heading in the first volume of your famous Al Kafi.

"No one exept imams collected all Quran......"
-----that is mean all.
So Kulayni named chapter like this.
And there is no doubt that Quran (which is in our hands) WASN'T COLLECTED BY IMAM.


It is atributed to Hz. Ali [ra] in EHTIJAJ TABRISI PAGE# 259
Ameer[as] said Allah named his Nabi[saw] YASIN and revealed in Quran "Salaam Aala Aaley Yasin" Allah did this because He knew that the companions will remove "Aala Aaley Muhammad" from Quran.


Asool Kafi Vol:2 Page#632
Jabbir narrates, He heard Imam Baqir say"Quran fell in sea, people looked for it and when they found the book everything was washed away other than a aya ILLA ALA ALLAH TAZEER ALAL AMOOR [listen all amoor will return to Allah]

Rejecting Accuracy/Integrity of Quran-Fundamental Belief of Shi'ism

The most important, oldest and the most reliable book of creed and fiqh (jurisprudence) for jafri shias is Al-Kafi (compiled by Koleni, died in 329 hijri). The part of this book dealing with aqeedah (creed) is known as Usul Kafi and the part related to fiqh (jurisprudence) is called Furu Kafi.

We find numerous traditions about Tahreef in Quran in Usul Kafi. In this book there have been put chapters especially on Tahreef in Quran and the effect of such traditions is that the last eminent muhaddith (hadith scholar) of jafri shiites, Nuri Tabrasi, in his book Faslul Khitab fee Tahreef Kitab Rabbul Arbab, has not only mentioned 2000 traditions and hadiths of shias over Tahreef in Quran but also stated clearly that all early eminent shia scholars (high ups) except four believe in Tahreef in Quran.

It has also been stated in this book that these four rejectors of Tampering in Quran cannot prove their views using principles of shiism.
(In other words their views are based on Taqiyyah so that shias can use their cover at the time of need, saying our these 4 ulama dont believe in Tahreef in Quran and we also dont believe in such aqeedah.)

This is not only our claim that (the four) shia ulama who reject tahreef in Quran, do it as Taqiyyah but this fact has been admitted by the famous shia scholar and student of Mulla Baqar Majlisi, Nematullah Jazayeri who writes in his book Anwarun Numaniyah:

Those who have rejected (aqeedah of) Tahreef in Quran (i.e. Shaykh Sudooq, Shareef Murtadha, Tusi and mufassir Tabrasi) have done so due to many considerations (expediency) (i.e. due to taqiyyah to fool sunnis) because they have accommodated such hadiths and traditions in their books in a big number which claim that Quran has undergone tampering and that the so and so verse was revealed this way but later on it was tampered.

(Anwarun Numaniyah, printed in Tabrez, 1389 hijri, volume 2, page 257)

Muhaddith Nuri Tabrasi

The importance of muhaddith Nuri Tabrasi one can imagine by the following fact:

Jafri fiqh is based on these 4 books:

1. Kafi
2. Manl-la-yahdharh-al-faqih
3. Tahzib-al-ahkaam
4. Al-istabsar

The collection of all narrations from these books is named as Wasayel-ash-shia which was compiled by Hur Amili.
To this most comprehensive book of shia-hadiths, Nuri Tabrasi has appended a supplement in many volumes with the name of Mustadrak al-wasayel and thus he has perfected shias traditions/narrations. On this memorable work of him, he was buried after death near to the presumed shrine of Hadhrat Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu in Najaf, where his grave is the pilgrim centre for everyone.

Three admissions / confessions of shia scholars believing in Tahree of Quran

These scholars of jafri shias who believe in Tahreef of Quran, openly admit it saying

1. We have numerous traditions/narrations concerning tahreef.

2. These narrations of us clearly imply tahreef in Quran.

3. We belief in tahreef of Quran due to these very narrations.

The expert in shialogy, Maulana Abdush Shakoor Lakhnavi who was the first to introduce this book of Shaykh Nuri Tabrasi in the subcontinent, writes in his book Tambihal-Hayerin under the heading of Three Admissions of shia-scholars which was in response to the booklet of his contemporary shia mujtahid, Ali Hayeri Lahori, the booklet was Mauizah Tahreef Quran:

1. It says in the book, Faslul Khitab, printed in Iran, page 235:

Many hadiths which are authentic and imply the shortfall and loss in the present Quran, other than those hadiths which have been described in the course of prior arguments and imply that this Quran is less than the amount of descent (nuzool) and this shortfall is not specific to some verse or chapter and these hadiths are diffused in such different books in which our religion confides and to whom the followers of our religion refer. I have compiled all those hadiths I came across.

After this he has named numerous books and piled the narrations over tahreef.

2. Moreover on page 31 of the same book, he has quoted the comments of Muhaddith Jazayeri:

Saiyid Muhammad Jazayeri has written in the book Anwar which means the people of Imamiyah have agreed on the accuracy (authenticity) of these advantageous (mustafeedha) and continued (mutawatir) narrations which clearly imply the Quran being tampered (changed), this tampering is with Quran as well as with parts and with arab (vowel points) and Imamians have agreed on the attestation of these narrations.

3. On page 251 of the same Faslul Khitab, he quotes other ulama as well other than muhaddith Jazayeri, saying the narrations of tahreef are mutawatir.
Certainly the narrations on tahreef are numerous even that Saiyid Nematullah Jazyeri has written in some of his compilations as is transmitted through them, the narrations which imply the tampering in Quran are more than 2000 (in number) and a jamaat (group) has claimed for them to be mustafeedh, for example Mufeed, researcher Damaad and Allamah Majlisi etc. rather the Shaykh in Tabayaan has clearly stated that these narrations are numerous even that a group of hadith scholars has claimed that such narrations are mutawatir which would be discussed later on

It should be known that hadiths on tahreef (of Quran) have been transmitted from those books in which our fellows trust in order to establish commands of shariah and to transmit traditions of Nabawiyah.

3. Afterward the author of Faslul Khitab has fulfilled his promise and in the end of the book has mentioned the names of all those hadith scholars who have referred to narrations of tahreef as mutawatir. With these names is the name of Allamah Majlisi as well and these lines of his text is worth reading:

To me the narrations about tahreef in Quran are really mutawatir (continued), if these narrations are abandoned, it would discredit all our art of hadith, even that according to my knowledge, the narrations about tahreef in Quran are not less than those of the issue of Imamat, therefore if the narrations of Tahreef in Quran are not trusted, the creed of Imamat as well cant be proven through narrations.

4. Allamah Muhsin Kashi, in the preface of Tafsir Saafi, narrating (filthy) traditions of Tahreef, says on page 32 (printed in Tehran, 1375 hijri):

The meaning of all these narrations as well as the hadiths which have been transmitted with the sanad of Ahl-al-Bayt, is that the Quran which is with us is not exactly as it was descent on Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam but in it something is opposite to what Allah descent and there are some changes and tampering and certainly much of its content has been removed for example the name of (Imam) Ali from many places, in addition to this it is known from these narrations that the order of this Quran (arrangement of verses and chapters) is not as was agreed by God and His Messenger. This all is agreed upon by Ali bin Ibrahim Qummi.

5. Great mujtahid of the last period, Molvi Dildaar Ali whom shias great Imam, Molvi Hamid Husain calls Ayatullah fil aalameen, writes in Emadul Islam:

Ayatullah fil aalameen i.e. Molvi Dildaar Ali says, after quoting some hadiths over Tahreef (in Quran) transmitted from the leaders of creation (i.e. Imams of Ahl-al-Bayt):

The conclusion of these narrations is that there was certainly a tampering (tahreef) in this Quran which is before us, with respect to an addition of some letters (huroof) and a loss of some letters even some words and with respect to the order. In this way after believing in these narrations, there cannot be any doubt in the tampering of Quran. (after this Molvi Dildaar Ali has mentioned forms of tampering which we would see later, inshaAllah)

Some Evidences (taken from

1. Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulaini on the authority of Jabir that he heard Abu Ja'far saying: "Whoever claims from amongst the people that he has collected the entire Qur'an as Allah has revealed it is a liar. Only 'Ali and the Imams after him had collected it and memorized it as Allah had revealed it."

(Usul al-Kafi, Chapter that the Qur'an was not entirely collected except by the Imams, and they only have all knowledge)

2. Kulaini has narrated on the authority of Salim ibn Salamah who said: "A person recited a portion of the Qur'an to Abu 'Abdullah (Imam Ja'far), and I heard that a few words of the Qur'an which the other people did not recite. At this, Imam Ja'far told him: "Refrain from reciting this way, recite like how the common people (sunnis and shias) recite it until the appearance of the saviour (Imam Mahdi). When he appears, recite the Qur'an to its fullest. I will then reveal the manuscript which 'Ali had written. It is the same manuscript, after writing it, he presented it to the people saying: "This is the Book of Allah as was revealed upon Muhammad (S.A.W.). I have gathered it from the tablets." The people told him: "We already have a manuscript in which the entire Qur'an has been collected. We are not in need of yours." At this, 'Ali told them: "By Allah, I will never show it to you after this day. I was charged to inform you of it after I collected it so that you may recite it."

(Usul al-Kafi, Indian edition, pge 68)

3. Kulaini has again narrated on the authority of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abu Nasr who said: "Abu al-Hasan gave me a manuscript and told me to see what was written therein. I opened it, and under the verse "Those who disbelieve will not??.." were written the names of seventy ---- along with the names of their father." (Usul al-Kafi, Indian edition, pge 680)

4. Kulaini again narrates that Abu 'Abdulah said: "Jibra'il descended upon Muhammad with the following verse in this way: "O people of the Book, bring faith in what we have revealed regarding 'Ali, the magnificent light." (Ibid)

5. Some of the Shi'ahs have accused Sayyidian 'Uthman that he had destroyed the original Qur'an by burning it, and all the chapters which contained the virtues of 'Ali and the ahl al-Bait were also destroyed. From amongst these portions is the chapter of wilayat as follows: "In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, Most Merciful. O you who believe, bring faith on the two lights which We have revealed. They will recite My verses to you and will warn you of the punishment of a terrible day. These two lights are of each other, and I am All-Hearing All-Knowing." (Faslul Khitab fi Tahrif Kitab Rabb al-Arbab pge 180)

6. Ahmad ibn Abu Talib Tibirsi narrates on the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (R.A.): "When the Holy Prophet passed away, 'Ali gathered the Qur'an and produced it to the Emigrants (Muhajirun) and the Helpers (Ansar) as the Holy Prophet had bided him to do so. When Abu Bakr opened the first page, he found some denunciation of the Quraish tribe. At this 'Umar leapt forward and said: "O 'Ali, take it back for we are not in need of it." 'Ali took it back. Just then Zaid ibn Thabit, a prominent reciter of the Qur'an appeared, and 'Umar told him: "'Ali was here a short while back with a Qur'an which despises the Emigrants and the Helpers. I think we should compile such a Qur'an wherein all these aspects are omitted." Zaid agreed with him, but he added: "Once I have completed the Qur'an according to this method and 'Ali sees it, will your version be not invalidated?" 'Umar then asked: "What ruse should we employ then?" Zaid replied: "You know better of such ruses." At this 'Umar said: "There is no ruse but to kill 'Ali and obtain comfort from him in this way." 'Umar then thought of having him killed by Khalid ibn al-Walid, but this plan failed. When 'Umar assumed the leadership after some time, the people asked 'Ali to produce his Qur'an. 'Umar asked him: "O 'Ali, produce the Qur'an which you showed Abu Bakr so that we may agree on it." At this, 'Ali said: "This is not possible, I only showed it to Abu Bakr so that the proof may be established on you people, and so that you may not say on the day of Judgement: "We were unaware of it," "You did not produce it." The Qur'an in my possession will not be touched except by the pure, and the designated ones of my family." 'Umar asked: "Is the time known when it will be produced." Upon this 'Ali replied: "Yes, when the saviour of times emerge, it will be produced and all the people will agree to it." (Al-Ihtijaj, Najaf, pge 225. Also see Tafsir al-Safi pge 11, and Fasl al-Khitab pge 7)

7. Husain al-Nuri al-Tabarsi says: "It has been narrated from many of the Rawafid (shias) of times gone by that the present Qur'an is not the one which was revealed upon Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.). it has been altered, and many words added on and omitted." (Faslul Khitab fi Tahrif Kitab Rabb al-Arbab pge 32) .

The Beliefs of the Shi'ites about the Present Quran (taken from

Jabir reported that he heard Imam Baqir saying: 'No one can claim that he has compiled the Quran as Allah revealed except a liar. The only person to compile it and memorise it according to its revelation was Ali ibn Abi Talib and the Imams who succeeded him.

(Usole kafi 1:228)

A man said that someone was reciting the Quran in the company of Imam Ja'far. The narrator said that he heard certain verses in the recitation which were not according to the recitation of the people. Imam Ja'far told the person reciting: 'Do not recite like this. Recite as the people recite until the (promised) Mahdi arrives. When the Mahdi arrives, he will recite the Quran according to its original revelation and the Qu,ran compiled by Ali will be brought forward. (Ibid: 2.622)

Allah says in Surah Ale Imraan (32):

"Certainly Allah has chosen Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imraan above the (families of the) worlds."

Allamah Ali ibn Ibrahim AI-Qummi - one of the early Shi'ite commentators of the Quran said concerning this verse:

'The Imam said: 'The words: "The family of Muhammed" were also revealed along with "the family of Ale Imraan." They (referring to the Companions of the Prophet S.A.W.) removed the words "The family of Muhammad" from the original text (Al-Qummi's commentary:308). The allegation of removing the words preempts any possibility of abrogation. It is clear that the commentary is accusing the Companions of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) of distorting the Quran.

Allah says in Surah Taha (115):

"And We had given Adam an order before, but he forgot and We did not find any resolve in him (to disobey the order)."

Imam Ja'far is reported to have said that Allah had revealed this verse with the following words:

"We had ordered Adam before with some words about Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the Imams from their offspring but he (Adam) forgot." Ja'far said: 'By Allah, these were the words which were revealed to Muhammad.' (Usul Kafi: 1:416 and the footnotes of Maqbool's translation: 637)

Allah says in Surah Yusuf (49):

"Then a year will come in which people will be given abundant help and they will press grapes." In AI-Qummi's commentary it is reported from Imam Ja'far that someone recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said: 'What will they press'? Wine?' The person asked how he should read the verse. Ali replied that the verse was revealed thus: "Then a year will come in which people will he given abundant help and in which they will be given abundant rain. (Al-Qummi's commentary: 192)

The word Ya'siroon in the present Quran is in the active voice. According to this commentary it should have been read in the passive voice as Yu'saroon to alter the meaning. In the footnotes to the translation of Maqbool, it is written that this word (Ya'siroon) was changed from the passive voice to the active to suit the fancies of wine-loving khulafa (rulers). (Maqbool's translation: 479)

Allah says in Surah Muhammad (9):

"That is because they resented what Allah revealed, so Allah in turn cancelled their deeds." AI-Qummi has stated that Imam Muhammad Baqir said that Jibreel had transmitted this verse as: 'That is because they resented what Allah revealed about Ali.' But then the apostates removed Ali's name (from the Quran). (Ibid: 1011)

Allah says in Surah Waqi'ah (29):

"And the Companions of the Right Hand. What about the Companions of the Right Hand. They shall be among thornless lote-trees and under clusters of bananas."

One person recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said that the word Talh is not.appropriate and should read Tal'a as in Surah Shu'araa (.........). Some enquired as why the word should not be changed. Ali replied that it was not the right time to do so because correcting the Quran would only confuse common people. He went on to say that among the Imams, only Imam Mahdi will have the right to reintroduce the Quran as it was during the time of the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Ibid: 1067)

Abu Mansur Ahmed Tibrisi, a prominent Shi'ite scholar of the 8th century (H), has written:

'Enumerating the distortions and omissions of this sort (from the present Quran) would become laborious and it will disclose what Taqiyyah (Shi'ite practice to conceal the 'truth' for religious purposes) requires me not to disclose: the good qualities of Allah's friends and the vices of His enemies. (AI-Ihtijaj by Tibrisi: 1:254)

Mullah Muhsin Kashani, an 11th century Shi'ite scholar comments on the above quoted statement:

'It is clear from all of these traditions and quotations from the Family of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) that the present Quran is not the complete Quran which was revealed to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In fact, there are verses that contradict that which was revealed; verses that have been distorted and places where omissions have been made such as the names of Ali, the Family of Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and, on several occasions, there were the names of the hypocrites. Moreover, the present order of the Quran is not according to the preferred order of Allah and His Messenger. Ali ibn Ibrahim (a renowned commentator) also holds this opinion.' (Tafseer of Saafi: l:32).


(I) Qur'aan - The Shi'ites call the Qur'aan "Note Book of Othman." They consider the present Qur'aan as compiled by, Hazrat Abu Baker (R.A.), Hazrat Omar (R.A.) and Hazrat Othman (R.A.) whom they consider usurpers of Hazrat Ali's (R.A.) caliphate, unbelievers and renegades. (The fact is that the whole Qur'aan was revealed to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam who got it written on slabs of bones and stones, parchments etc. and it was memorised by many companions and recited in the presence of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

The Shia belief is that the real Quraan was entrusted by the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) to Hazrat Ali (R.A.), but when the enemies did not believe in the same, Hazrat Ali (R.A.) concealed it and entrusted the same to his successor Imaams, and the eleventh Imaam handed it over to the twelfth Imaam - the underground and hidden Imaam. He is keeping the real Qur'aan in his custody, and when he will reappear, he will then reveal the real Qur'aan. The underground Imaam was only a child when he was entrusted with the Holy Qur'aan for safe custody.

The Shias believe that in the real Qur'aan lying with the underground Twelfth Imaam, there is a clear mention of Hazrat Ali (R.A.) and his posterity Imaamat. The present Qur'aan is abridged and the Shias per force believe the same as Qur'aan - but it is only, a stopgap belief. (vide Majalisus - Shia 147-149). (Al Balaghul- Mobin 368) (Ibid 37 Volume Two, 378, 373). (On the other hand, even European Orientalists consider the Qur'aan to be the only religious scripture in the world free from any temperance and existing in its pristine purity).

QUR'AAN: (Conclusion)

1.) Not Completed.
2.) Has 17,000 Aayats.
3.) Our's has 6,666.
4.) Abu Bakr's opposed the text of the Quraan.
5.) Original Quraan with 12th Imaam Mahdi.
6.) Do not produce Haafiz.
7.) Do not perform Taraweeh.
8.) Quraan will be read/ learnt when 12th Imaam brings it.
9.) Ali (R.A) showed original Quraan to Sahabah (R.A) who rejected it.
10.) Passages mentioning virtures of Ali(R.A) has been purposefully deleted from the Quraan.
11.) There are 2,000 shiah traditions making many additions and subtractions in Quraan.
12.) The 'Murtaddeen'- renegrades have removed the name of Ali(R.A).


(1.) Usul Kafi 1:228/ Faslul Kitaab fi Tahrif. Kitaabi Raabul Arbaa of Nuri Tibarsi approved by Khomeni in ' Al- Hukumaat -ul- Islamiyaa".
(2.) Usul Kafi P671.
(3.) Usul Kafi P671.
(4.) Kashful Asraar P111.
(5.) Usul Kafi 2-632.
(6.) See Iran.
(7.) See Iran.
(8.) Usul Kafi - p622.
(9.) Maqbool - 1067 - Usul Kafi Vol1 P228. (10.)Tafseer Ali Qummi-308 /Usul Kafi 1:416/Footnotes of Maqbool's translation 637/ Al- Ihtijaj- Tabarsi- 1-254/ Tafseer of Saafi- 1- 32/ Muqaddamah 6 , from Tafseer Saafi P32 Vol -1.
(11.) Usul Kafi 1:228/ Faslul Kitaab fi Tahrif. Kitaabi Raabul Arbaa of Nuri Tabarsi.
(12.) Surah Muhammad, Ayat 9, Para 26- Molvi Maqbool Dehli P1011.

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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:00am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

Originally posted by Fatah-Momin

This is a major issue that I have come across too, When ever I discussed it with shia they claim to believe in the Qur'an on further probe they start pointing at abbrogation as alteration in Qur'an. Further enquiry with the same shia resulted in to a revelation, that Quran is not the last testement of Allah. Another book was revealed by Allah, which further elaborated on what was revealed in Quran.  


The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest
scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn
Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

     "Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
     Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
     And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
     greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally
     accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say
     that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh
                  Saduq, English version, p77.

It should be noted that Shaykh Saduq (RA) is the greatest scholar of Hadith
among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaykh al-Muhaddithin (i.e.,
the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the above
in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is quite
impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to it.
It is noteworthy that Shaykh Saduq lived at the time of minor occultation
of Imam Mahdi (AS) and he was one of the earliest Shia scholars. He had the
honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (AS).

Another prominent Shia scholar is Allama Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar who wrote
in his Shia Creed book that:

     "We believe that the Holy Quran is revealed by Allah through the Holy
     Prophet of Islam dealing with every thing which is necessary for the
     guidance of mankind. It is an everlasting miracle of the Holy Prophet
     the like of which can not be produced by human mind. It excels in its
     eloquence, clarity, truth and knowledge. This Divine Book has not been
     tampered with by any one. This Holy Book which we recite today is the
     same Holy Quran which was revealed to the Holy Prophet. Any one who
     ^^^^                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^
     claims it to be otherwise is an evil-doer, a mere sophist, or else he
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
     is sadly mistaken. All of those who have this line of thinking have
     gone astray as Allah in Quran said: "Falsehood can not reach the Quran
     from any direction (41:42)"

- Shi'i reference: The Beliefs of Shi'ite School, by Muhammad Ridha
                     Mudhaffar, English version, pp 50-51

Sayyid al-Murtadha, another prominent Shi'ite Scholar said:

     "... our certainty of the completeness of the Quran is like our
     certainty of the existence of countries or major events that are self
     evident. Motives and reasons for recording and guarding the Holy Quran
     are numerous. Because the Quran is a miracle of the Prophethood and
     the source of Islamic Knowledge and religious rule, their concern with
     the Quran made the Muslim Scholars highly efficient concerning
     grammar, its reading, and its verses."

With this various concern by the most eminent Shia scholars, there is
no possibility that the Quran was added or deleted in some parts.

Besides what Allah mentioned in Quran about its protection, we can use our
logic to derive the same result. Allah sent his last Messenger to show
people (to the end of the time) His Right Path. Therefore if Allah does not
preserve His message, He would be contradicting His own aim. Obviously,
such negligence is evil according to reason. Thus, in essence, Allah
preserves His message as He preserved Moses in the house of His Enemy,


The four shia scholar that AbRah2006  quote, what other shia scholars say about their opinion, it is worthy to note that in last one thousand year shia could only quote four scholar who only one occasion [which may have been taqiyaa] agree that present Quran is authentic.

" Sayyid Muhaddith Al-Jazairi ( a Shi'i authority) said in this book, 'Al-Anwar':
'Our authorities are unanimous on the authenticity and verifications of the Mustafeed ( a Hadith category) narrations, which explicitly indicate that interpolation occurred in the Qur'an in regard to statements, content matter and diacritical signs. Yes, Murtadha, Sadiq and Shaikh Tabresi have differed in this matter." ( Faslul Khitab)
In addition to these four dissenters, Allama Noori Tabresi dismisses their opposition as insignificant, in the following terms:
"And, until his (i.e. Abu Ali Tabersi's) age (i.e. middle of the 6th century) no categorical difference of opinion (in this matter of a fabricated Qur'an) has been known besides that of those four elders." (Faslul Khitab)

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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:11am
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Mullah Baqir Majlasi:" and traditions from the ways of the elite (i.e Shia) and the public (i.e Sunnah) regarding omission and change are numerous (mutawatir), and logic dectates that if the Quran was seperated and spread amongst people, then if a fallible has tried to collect it, then it is highly unlikely that its collection would be complete and in compliance with reality. However, there is no doubt that people are obliged to work with what is included in the Mushafs and to read it until Al-Qayem appears, and this is known through numersous traditions (mutawatir) from the way of Ahlul Bayt and most traditions relating to this topic point to omission and change, and many of it will be related in the chapters..........."

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" This tradition is authentic and it cannot be hidden that this traditon and many more authentic traditons are explicit in (saying) that the Quran is missing and has changed. For me, (I believe) that the traditions have reached tawatur (i.e they are numerous) with regards to the meaning, and ignoring all of it would mean ignoring all traditions accordingly , but I think that the narrations in this meaning are not less than the narrations if Imamah so how do they confirm it using traditions?" Mirat Al-Uqool Vol 12 p. 525

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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 5:18am


Do you know what are you doing now? You are trying to split Muslim brotherhood and destroy the unity of Muslims thus weakening Muslims! What do you get by doing such things? Even the Americans, British and Zionists are trying to do the same thing in Iraq when their agents are caught red-handed by Iraqi policemen when they use cars that are full of explosives to kill Shia and Sunni followers while the agents of the infidels spread rumors accusing both Sunni and Shia of bombing each other so that the Sunni and Shia will kill each other. The infidels watch the show happily and use it as an excuse to occupy Iraq for a long time  to steal all the Iraqi oil! Are you one of their agents? What are your motives behind your writing?

Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 8:05am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

<SPAN ="bold">Fatah-Momin,</SPAN>

<SPAN ="bold">Do you know what areyou doing now? You are trying to split Muslim brotherhood and destroy the unity of Muslims thus weakening Muslims! What do you get by doing such things? Even the Americans, British and Zionists are trying to do the same thing in Iraq when their agents are caught red-handed by Iraqi policemen when they use cars that are full of explosives to kill Shia and Sunni followers while the agents of the infidels spread rumors accusing both Sunni and Shia bomb each other so that the Sunni and Shiawill kill each other. The infidels watch the show happily and use it as an excuse to occupy Iraq for a long time to stealall the Iraqioil! Are you one of their agents? What are your motives behind your writing?</SPAN>

I agree.
Also remeber when they caught british agent in Iraq? dressed as Iraqi?
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:13am

Please find below a statement by an ex shia


I say: Wallahi shias are liers, there is no need to learn history, hadis, or anything else to prove that! That is clear. Modern shia clerics are talking about muslims unity, about brotherhood between sunnis and shias. Wallahi we are not muslims for them. Here another proof.
1 - : ϡ (1) ǡ (2) ޡ ޡ ǡ
ɡ (1) : " ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) (2) "
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Abd al-Aziz ibn al-Muhtadi from Adallah ibn Jundab to who Imam al-Rida (a.s.) wrote the following. "Thereafter, (thanking Allah) Muhammad (s.a.) was the trustee of Allah for His creatures. When he was taken away from this world we, Ahl al-Bayt inherited him, thus, we are the trustees of Allah over His earth. With us is the knowledge of the sufferings, the death, the genealogy of the Arabs and the birth of Islam. We know the man when we see him in the truth of faith or hypocrisy. Our followers (Shia) are listed (with us) by their names and the names of their fathers. Allah has established a covenant with them and with us. They land wherever we would do so and enter wherever we would enter. There is no one on islam except us (that is mean us and our followers). We are the noble saviors and the descendents of the prophets and of the children of the successors of the prophets. We the ones to whom the book of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has come exclusively. We, of all people, have the first priority (closeness) to the book of Allah. We, of all people, have the first priority (closeness) to the Messenger of Allah. For us He formed His religion.
"He has established for you (family of Muhammad) a form of religion which is of the commands to Noah {we are commanded with whatever Noah was commanded}. It is of the mattes that We have revealed to you (Muhammad) and of the commands to Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus to follow.{We have taught and preached the knowledge that was taught to us. We were given the knowledge of these prophets. We are the heirs of the commissioned Messengers}. (He has explained it) so that you (family of Muhammad) would be steadfast and united (all in a united group) in your religion. What you call the polytheists {polytheists in the acknowledgement of the Divine authority of Imam Ali (a.s.} to{the acknowledgement of the Divine authority of Imam Ali (a.s.}is extremely grave for them. God {O Muhammad} attracts to (the religion) whomever He wants and guides to it whoever turns to Him in repentance." (42:13)
(see Muhammad Yakub Al Kulayni "Al Kafi" vol 1, p 223-224, bab "In al aimma varisul ilmul nabiyi...")

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bullet Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:15am
Original Quran will not come into view till the manifestation of Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) (Nauzubillah). [Anwaar-ul-Na'umania, Vol#2, Pg#360 - Published Iran]

Collectors of Quran eliminated virtues of Prophets progeny from Surah Al-Ahzab which was about to the length of Surah Al-Bakrah (Nauzubillah). [Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Pg#66 - Published Iran]

Usman (r.a) made alteration in Surah Al-Rehman by eliminating words MINKUM (Nauzubillah). [Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Pg#525 - Published Iran]

Quran has been purposely altered by the drunkard Caliphs {Abu-Bakr (r.a), Umar (r.a) and Usman (r.a)}; The present Quran is false; Its the duty of Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) to bring it in its original form; When Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) will come, then the Quran will be recited in its original form (Nauzubillah). [Quran Translation by Maqbool Hussain Delhvi, Chap#12, Pg#384 Published India]

ILAA AJALIN-MUSAMMA has been removed from the Quran (Nauzubillah). [Mutah Aur Salahuddin Aybi, Pg#60 Published Karachi]

Quranic verses were not arranged by Abu-Bakr (r.a) in the same order as that in which it was revealed {hence Muslim Ummah was deprived of original Quran and present day Quran is incorrect} (Nauzubillah). [Sheikh-e-Saqifah, Pg#134 Published Karachi]

After the death of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w) original Quran was in the possession of Ali (r.a) which he brought before Abu-Bakr (r.a) but He refused to prevail such version that is why Muslim Ummah was deprived of original Quran (Nauzubillah). [Sheikh-e-Saqifah, Pg#138 Published Karachi]

To provide reasoning to WATI-FIL-DUBR changes were made in the Quranic comprehension (Nauzubillah). [Tehzeeb-ul-Ahkaam, Vol#7, Pg#415 Published Iran]

The present (false) Quran doesnt mentions the name of Pakistan however ours (SHIAs) true Quran even have the name of Pakistan (Nauzubillah). [Hazar Tumhari Das Hamari, Pg#554 Published Karachi]
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