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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Fatah-Momin
 
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bullet Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:26pm
The Shi'a & Qur'an
One of the major "Battle Fields" between Muslims & Shi'ites is the later's belief regarding the authenticity of the Holy Qur'an which Allah [swt] promised to guard till the Day of Reckoning from any changes, saying: 15:9. "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)".
Disbelieving to the contrary leads to the denial of the entire Qur'an and abolishing the Shari'ah which is based on it mainly because, such belief puts every single verse under the probability of being distorted, and under such a probability no faith can be founded because faith cannot be established on probabilities, but on certainty.
As for the Shi'ites, they have a different views on the matter as we shall discover.
(1) What is the generally accepted Shi'ites view on the authenticity of the Qur'an?

The Shi'a, like the Muslims, believe that the Qur'an is the Words of Allah [swt]. However, unlike Muslims, they believe the distortion occured in the Qur'anic text as it occured in the past scriptures. Their authentic books contain over 2000 narration from their "INFALLIBLE" Imams verifying, affirming and confirming their theory of "Tahreef" (Distortion). To date, we are not aware of any Shi'a scholar who denies this theory in a whole and/or in part. To ascertain of this fact, we invite those who are unaware of this matter, Muslims or Shi'ites, to check and verify on their own, the sources contained herein. To illustrate, we will break the evidence into four catagories:

1. Statements from Shi'a scholars regarding the Tahreef, 2. Narration from the "INFALLIBLE" Imams, 3. Distortion of the meaning. 4. Examples of such distortions.

A. SCHOLARLY STATEMENTS:

In the earliest Shi'i Tafaseer, which is the source and base for all Tafseer books, al-Qummi clearly states the belief of the Shi'ites regarding the authenticity of the Book of Allah saying:

"Therefore, part of the Qur'an is an Abrogator and Abrogated, part is clear (Muhkam) and part is ambiguous (Mutashabih), part is in the general context, and part is particularized, part of it was placed forward and part is placed in the rear, part of it is severed and part of is connected, part of it is a letter in a place of another, and part of it is contrary to the manner revealed by Allah"
Tafseer al-Qummi, Introduction, vol.1, p.17

The said "august" Tafseer book was commended by the majority Shi'i scholars and, as Sayyid Tayyib Musawi al-Jaza'iri, wrote in its "Introduction":


"First: This Tafseer is the base of so many other Tafseer books.
Second: The narration contained therein are from the two Sadiqs [as] (Imam Abu Ja'far & Imam Abu Abdallah) with the least medium of narrators, hence, author of al-Thari'ah (ila Tasaanif Ash-Shi'a: Agha Buzurg At-Tahrani) said: "In fact, it is the Tafseer of the two Sadiqs [as]".
Third: The author lived during the era of Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari [as].
Fourth: His father, who reported these narration to his son, was a companion of Imam Rida [as].
Fifth: (the book) Contains a wealth of knowledge on the virtues of Ahlul-Bayt [as] of which their enemies attempted to remove from the Holy Qur'an".
Sixth: (the book) Took care of clearing the meaning of so many misunderstood verses only through the guidance of Ahlul-Bayt, the Qur'an reciters".
The very next Tafseer which is another pillar in Shi'asm is Tafseer al-Ayyashi, who was one of al-Kash-shi's Sheikhs, and in the same rank of Thiqatul-Islam al-Kulayni, as ranked by At-Tahrani in his al-Thari'ah vol4, p.295. Al-Ayashi wrote in the "introduction" of his Tafseer, quoting the "Infallible" Abu Ja'far:


"Narrated Maysar from Abu Ja'far [as]: If it wasn't for the adding and deleting in the Book of Allah, our right (in Imamah - leadership) would've been clear for anyone with a sound mind".
Tafseer al-Ayyashi, Muhammad bin Mas'oud al-Ayyashi, Introduction
al-Bahrani wrote in his Tafseer al-Burhaan:

Know, that the truth which there is no way around it, because of the multi-narrations (mutawatir) and other, is that the Qur'an which we have in our hands today, has suffered some changes after the Messenger of Allah [pbuh]. That those who collected it after him, have dropped and deleted many words and verses, and that the protected Qur'an from such changes and agreeable to the revelation of Allah Ta'ala is the one which was collected by Ali [as] and guarded until it reached his son al-Hasan [as] and so on until it ended in the possession of al-Qa'im (Mahdi) [as] who has it with him today.
Therefore, and in accordance to a clear narration which we will soon mention, when Allah the Exalted knew, in His perfect pre knowledge, that such evil deeds will be perpetrated by those who mischief in Religion, that whenever they see a clear declaration against their interests but beneficial to him (Ali) and his purified offspring [as], they will drop it immediately or distort it by changing.

When it was of His perfect Will and comprehensive Subtle, to guard the issue of al-Imamah and Walayah, and to protect the aspects of the virtues of him [pbuh] and the Imams [as] in a manner that will be safe from the mess of the people of wasting and distorting, but at the same time, keeps to the people of truth the (hidden) meaning and maintain the charge, He did not contend only with what was clear in His Glorious Book, but made the overwhelming majority of such declarations in accordance with the inner meanings and exegetic methods but within the frame of what the outer revelation leads to. He further alluded to many of the proofs by way of signaling and expression of signs and allegories, thus His proofs on the creation is established even after its dropping by those who dropped them after they were clear in the best manner.

........ It is very clear and obvious to me in conclusion, the truthfulness of this theory (i.e the distortion of the Qur'an) after all the research and examination of the evidences to the point we can say it is part of the necessary beliefs of the Shi'ite Madhhab, and that it is one of the major consequences of usurping the Khilafah, so contemplate on it"

al-Burhaan fee Tafseer al-Qur'an: Sayyid Hashim At-Tubari al-Bahrani, Introduction: the second premise, volume 1, p.36, last paragraph, p. 49.
(2) Before continuing any further, some Shi'ites deny they ever believed in the theory of Tahreef, and strongly condemn it. Further, they have an evidence that some of their scholars also condemned this awful belief. How do you respond to them?

It is hard to imagine a single Shi'ite who does not believe that the Qur'an has been distorted by the Companions of the Messenger of Allah [saw], unless such a person is a newly made Shi'ite. Like all the ancient mysteries, the Shi'ites gradually present the fine secrets of their faith to the candidate and in accordance to their reception's ability.

On the other hand, when their belief became exposed to the Muslims, and the Shi'a were rejected as the body rejects waste, some of their Rabbis met to discuss and find away out of this delimma, agreed to conceal their true beliefs, and to clad their religion the garment of Taqiyyah to deceive the Muslims. The very first Rabbi who denied the Distortion theory was Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, whome the Shi'ites called As-Sadooq (the Truthful)- died 381h -. Nevertheless, while the pros supported their stand with over 2000 evidence, as Rabbi Ni'matallah al-Jaza'iri stated, he did not produce a single narrartion from their "Infallible" Imams that proves the contrary. Let us examine what he wrote:

"Our belief is that the Qur'an which Allah the Exalted sent to His Messenger Muhammad [pbuh] is what in between the two boards, and is what the people have in their hands, no more than that. Its total chapters for the people (i.e, the Muslims) is one hundred and forteen chapters, and to us (i.e, the Shi'ites) the chapters of "Ad-Duhaa" (93) and "Alam Nashrah" (94) is one chapter, and chapters "Li Eelaaf" (106) and "Alam Tara Kayfa" (105) are one chapter. He whom attributes to us the say that we believe there is more than that, is a liar. The narrations reported in the rewards for reading every chapter of the Qur'an, the reward for reading the entire Qur'an, the permissibility to read two chapters in a single Rik'ah, the outlawing of reading two Sura in a single rak'ah of Fard (salat) testifies to our claim regarding the Qur'an, i.e, the extent of it is what the people have in their hands. Furthermore, the narrations outlawing the recitation of the entire Qur'an in a single night, that such endeavor should not be in less than three days is a further testimony to our claim"
al-I'tiqaadaat: Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, Iran 1224 ed.
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Fatah-Momin
 
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bullet Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:33pm
The Beliefs of the Shi'ites about the Present Quran

Jabir reported that he heard Imam Baqir saying: 'No one can claim that he has compiled the Quran as Allah revealed except a liar. The only person to compile it and memorise it according to its revelation was Ali ibn Abi Talib and the Imams who succeeded him. (Usul Kafi: 1:228)

A man said that someone was reciting the Quran in the company of Imam Ja'far. The narrator said that he heard certain verses in the recitation which were not according to the recitation of the people. Imam Ja'far told the person reciting: 'Do not recite like this. Recite as the people recite until the (promised) Mahdi arrives. When the Mahdi arrives, he will recite the Quran according to its original revelation and the Qu,ran compiled by Ali will be brought forward. (Ibid: 2.622)
Allah says in Surah Ale Imraan (32):

"Certainly Allah has chosen Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imraan above the (families of the) worlds."

Allamah Ali ibn Ibrahim AI-Qummi - one of the early Shi'ite commentators of the Quran said concerning this verse:

'The Imam said: 'The words: "The family of Muhammed" were also revealed along with "the family of Ale Imraan." They (referring to the Companions of the Prophet S.A.W.) removed the words "The family of Muhammad" from the original text (Al-Qummi's commentary:308). The allegation of removing the words preempts any possibility of abrogation. It is clear that the commentary is accusing the Companions of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) of distorting the Quran.

Allah says in Surah Taha (115): \

"And We had given Adam an order before, but he forgot and We did not find any resolve in him (to disobey the order)."

Imam Ja'far is reported to have said that Allah had revealed this verse with the following words:

"We had ordered Adam before with some words about Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the Imams from their offspring but he (Adam) forgot." Ja'far said: 'By Allah, these were the words which were revealed to Muhammad.' (Usul Kafi: 1:416 and the footnotes of Maqbool's translation: 637)


Allah says in Surah Yusuf (49):

"Then a year will come in which people will be given abundant help and they will press grapes." In AI-Qummi's commentary it is reported from Imam Ja'far that someone recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said: 'What will they press'? Wine?' The person asked how he should read the verse. Ali replied that the verse was revealed thus: "Then a year will come in which people will he given abundant help and in which they will be given abundant rain. (Al-Qummi's commentary: 192)

The word Ya'siroon in the present Quran is in the active voice. According to this commentary it should have been read in the passive voice as Yu'saroon to alter the meaning. In the footnotes to the translation of Maqbool, it is written that this word (Ya'siroon) was changed from the passive voice to the active to suit the fancies of wine-loving khulafa (rulers). (Maqbool's translation: 479)

Allah says in Surah Muhammad (9):

"That is because they resented what Allah revealed, so Allah in turn cancelled their deeds." AI-Qummi has stated that Imam Muhammad Baqir said that Jibreel had transmitted this verse as: 'That is because they resented what Allah revealed about Ali.' But then the apostates removed Ali's name (from the Quran). (Ibid: 1011)

Allah says in Surah Waqi'ah (29):

"And the Companions of the Right Hand. What about the Companions of the Right Hand. They shall be among thornless lote-trees and under clusters of bananas."

One person recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said that the word Talh is not.appropriate and should read Tal'a as in Surah Shu'araa (.........). Some enquired as why the word should not be changed. Ali replied that it was not the right time to do so because correcting the Quran would only confuse common people. He went on to say that among the Imams, only Imam Mahdi will have the right to reintroduce the Quran as it was during the time of the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Ibid: 1067)

Abu Mansur Ahmed Tibrisi, a prominent Shi'ite scholar of the 8th century (H), has written:

'Enumerating the distortions and omissions of this sort (from the present Quran) would become laborious and it will disclose what Taqiyyah (Shi'ite practice to conceal the 'truth' for religious purposes) requires me not to disclose: the good qualities of Allah's friends and the vices of His enemies. (AI-Ihtijaj by Tibrisi: 1:254)

Mullah Muhsin Kashani, an 11th century Shi'ite scholar comments on the above quoted statement:

'It is clear from all of these traditions and quotations from the Family of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) that the present Quran is not the complete Quran which was revealed to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In fact, there are verses that contradict that which was revealed; verses that have been distorted and places where omissions have been made such as the names of Ali, the Family of Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and, on several occasions, there were the names of the hypocrites. Moreover, the present order of the Quran is not according to the preferred order of Allah and His Messenger. Ali ibn Ibrahim (a renowned commentator) also holds this opinion.' (Tafseer of Saafi: l:32)
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Fatah-Momin
 
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bullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 11:23pm

Please find below some of the shia belilefs direct from shia sources:

 

http://www.balagh.net/english/ahl_bayt/fat...gracious/17.htm

 
Actually, Fatima lived seventy-five days after the Prophet's death; when she was intensely depressed, Gabriel would visit and condole her on the Prophet's death. He would cheer her up by mentioning the good situation her father was enjoying, and tell her what would come to pass after her death. Imam Ali (A.S.) wrote what Gabriel said, and this is Fatima's book.


It continues to argue:

 
There remains a need for an explanation of what is meant by "It was revealed to her."

This explanation can be derived from the Quranic verses that revelation is not confined to prophets; but rather Allah, the Exalted, reveals to some chosen people as mentioned in the following verses:

A. "So Zakariya came out to his people from his chamber; told them by signs to celebrate God's praises in the morning and in the evening." (19: 11)

B. "So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days, and

(92)

He assigned to each Heaven its duty and command." (41: 12)

C. 'And behold! 1 inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Apostle." (5: 114)

D. "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): '1 am with you; give firmness to the Believers." (8: 12)

E. "And thy Lord taught the bee to build its cells in hills." (16: 68)

F. "So we sent this inspiration to the mother of Moses: 'Suckle (thy child)." (28: 7)

G. "And indeed We conferred a favor on thee another time (before)" (20: 38)

Moreover, these verses state that revelation is not confined to mankind, but it also includes other creatures such as: the Heavens, the Disciples, the angels, the bees, and Musa's mother.

Therefore, there can be no doubt that Allah, the Exalted, sent revelations to the Mistress of Women and daughter of the Master of Prophets, as he revealed to Musa's mother or Maryam Bint Imran.

In conclusion, Fatima's book is enormous, and includes detailed information about the legal punishments and the Islamic penal code, whether major or minor.

It was also declared that her book lists the names of kings who ruled and will rule on Earth until the Day of Resurrection. All this was according to the will of Allah the Knowing, the Omniscient. The book also contains descriptions of all-important events that will take place throughout history.

Fatima's book was not a Quran, as is clearly stated in the traditions of Ahlul-Bayt, in spite of the claims of the enemies of the Shiite who argue that the Shiites believe in another divine book called Fatima's book, with the intention of undermining their authentic faith.


The word inspired as explained in english dictionary

 
v. in·spired, in·spir·ing, in·spires
v. tr.
To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
To fill with enlivening or exalting emotion: hymns that inspire the congregation; an artist who was inspired by Impressionism.

To stimulate to action; motivate: a sales force that was inspired by the prospect of a bonus.
To affect or touch: The falling leaves inspired her with sadness.
To draw forth; elicit or arouse: a teacher who inspired admiration and respect.
To be the cause or source of; bring about: an invention that inspired many imitations.
To draw in (air) by inhaling.


Meaning of revelation in englilsh dictionary

 
rev·e·la·tion
n.

The act of revealing or disclosing.
Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
Theology. A manifestation of divine will or truth.
Revelation Abbr. Rev. or Rv. Bible.


Meaning on word dictated

 
v. dic·tat·ed, dic·tat·ing, dic·tates
v. tr.

ic·tat·ed, dic·tat·ing, dic·tates
v. tr.
To say or read aloud to be recorded or written by another: dictate a letter.


 
It has been narrated in v. 10 of A-Bihar that Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said to Abu Basir:

"... We also possess Fatima's book Mushaf, and had they known about the book of Fatima!!! It is three times the size of your Quran; and by Allah, it has not a letter of your Quran; rather it was dictated and revealed to her by Allah ...."



It is very clear from the hadith of the infalible imam that mus-haf Fatima was not a inspired book, as the person on the shia site is claiming it to be as he is trying to explain the hadith, in which imam state that this book was dictated [To say or read aloud to be recorded or written by another] and revealed [Theology. A manifestation of divine will or truth. Revelation].

This again goes to proves that shia do not belileve in quran as the last testement of Allah[swt] but believe in continious revelation, inshallah will post another shia hadith stating that all Imam recieve a divine book every year and go on miraj every friday.

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bullet Posted: 25 November 2005 at 11:13pm

Originally posted by Fatah-Momin

This is a major issue that I have come across too, When ever I discussed it with shia they claim to believe in the Qur'an on further probe they start pointing at abbrogation as alteration in Qur'an. Further enquiry with the same shia resulted in to a revelation, that Quran is not the last testement of Allah. Another book was revealed by Allah, which further elaborated on what was revealed in Quran.  

I have never discussed this with any muslim from the shi ah community nor heard anyone that I know of. It will be easy if we can bring forward question to a knowledgable shia sheikh instead of discussing among the sunni side only. For an example we can ask what surah or ayah that were missing/removed from the Qur'an and where they were originally located.

If there is an answer or answers - than everyone can work together to fit in the missing chapters or verses in the present Qur'an. This is the only way to stop the unnecessary bickering which has caused the bloodshed for the laymen and laywomen. 

Any shiah in this forum?

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bullet Posted: 26 November 2005 at 9:37am
This is from the shia source it is not I who has printed this material, ready link has been provieded for you to access the site and go through the whole content and not just rely on my post. Read the content carefully and give thoughts to the claims made on the site.

Edited by Fatah-Momin
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bullet Posted: 26 November 2005 at 9:42am
user posted image
Here is the image of sura which shia claim was thrown out of the Quran by the Companions.
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bullet Posted: 26 November 2005 at 6:40pm
The Sura you have provided has been shown to be a forgery (see http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/forgery.html).
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bullet Posted: 27 November 2005 at 4:29am

Originally posted by Fatah-Momin

This is from the shia source it is not I who has printed this material, ready link has been provieded for you to access the site and go through the whole content and not just rely on my post. Read the content carefully and give thoughts to the claims made on the site.

I went to the front page of that site http://www.balagh.net/english/ and there is a section specificly for the Qur'an with the heading Qur'an - I click that. And there is an article with the name:

The Originality and Genuineness of The Holy Qur'an in its text and its Arrangement:

The great majority of scholars of all schools of thought in Islam agree that the Holy Qur'an, as it is today in our hands, was put into writing under the command, and under the personal supervision, of the Holy Prophet himself, and that there were no additions, omissions or alterations whatsoever.

There are, however, a few traditionalists of the Sunni as well as the Shia schools who, influenced by tradition rather than reason and historical fact, have held the view that some omissions and alterations occurred before official assent was given to the present version by the Third Caliph. The advocates of this view have not succeeded in providing any evidence of this
.

I knew this all the way back from 1998 when I asked a shiah in one of the website. He gave me such answer that in an instant I dismissed any claim that the shiah are not muslims or have different Qur'an. But some people refuse to have a dialogue with the people they never met and that's why we are so easy to fall into fitnah.

Trust them brother just like you trust yourself. Let scrutinize ourselves first before pointing the finger unto others. Be kind to fellow believers no matter how hard we need to confront the old dogmas. Be helpfull with what we know even little to those who are struggling with their own knowledge. And let's forgive them of all their short comings just as what we wish others in looking at our short comings.

Hopefully with this attitude the world will be better place to live for the next generations at least - if not for us.

O God, show us the truth as the truth.

 

 

 

 

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