Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Do shia believe in present Quran(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 8 Next >>
Author Message
Fatah-Momin
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
bullet Topic: Do shia believe in present Quran
    Posted: 04 November 2005 at 3:21pm
This is a major issue that I have come across too, When ever I discussed it with shia they claim to believe in the Qur'an on further probe they start pointing at abbrogation as alteration in Qur'an. Further enquiry with the same shia resulted in to a revelation, that Quran is not the last testement of Allah. Another book was revealed by Allah, which further elaborated on what was revealed in Quran.  
IP IP Logged
Deus
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 134
bullet Posted: 04 November 2005 at 4:09pm

There are many sects within Shi'ism itself, but the mainstream Shii belief is they use the same Quran as Sunnis, though they interpret many verses differently (political differences on the most part).

[For the sake of citing a reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiism]



Edited by Deus
IP IP Logged
Fatah-Momin
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
bullet Posted: 04 November 2005 at 11:19pm
Deus
Political differences were not brought up by shia during the whole conversation, they insist that Qur'an was altered [naouzobillah] which necessiated burnning of the manuscripts by Hz. Uthman[ra], from the time of Nabi Allah[saw]
IP IP Logged
Deus
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 134
bullet Posted: 05 November 2005 at 12:14am

It is true that there were some variations in the Qurans present at the time of Uthman, but no sources mention anything about Shii ideas being burnt. Shiism didn't even exist back then. Am I right?

IP IP Logged
Fatah-Momin
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
bullet Posted: 05 November 2005 at 1:35am

Yes you are rite that shi did not exist at that time but what shia further claim that after departure of Nabi Allah[saw] almost all the companions[ra] other than 5 or 6 turned apostate[naouzobillah]. They altered the quran to deprive Hz. Ali [ra] his rights of successorship to Nabi Allah[saw].

Further there was no variation in Quran, there were some foot notes that were added to different manuscript by the companions to better understand the context of Aya and suras, which were removed. As the bounderies of muslim dominance exceeded Arabic speaking areas, the pronounciation of the words of Quran varied from area to area, which would have caused altering of the meaning of the words in future. Hz. Uthman [ra] standardized the the Quran in Quraish dialect, the arabic dialect of the Nabi Allah[saw] and burned all the manuscript with variation of different dialects.

This does not mean that Quran was altered at all. it means that it was standardized in the dialect it was revealed in to start with.

IP IP Logged
Ayubi1187
 
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 06 December 2001
Location: Somalia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 69
bullet Posted: 07 November 2005 at 6:05am
Even if todays shia dont believe any more that the quran was altered they still have not rejected the people who held this believe. Not only that they follow this heretics and some of there writings is encouraged to learn in shiism. Its double standard by shia to say we dont believe the quran was altered and in the same time follow,love and praise them.
IP IP Logged
Fatah-Momin
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
bullet Posted: 07 November 2005 at 8:30pm
Very true I have come across many claims by shia scholars who say that this book is a altered book and much of the material was taken out as it praised and raised the status of Hz. Ali[ra].
IP IP Logged
Fatah-Momin
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
bullet Posted: 10 November 2005 at 8:21pm

 

Beliefs of Shia about the present Qur'an

1 Mi ibne lbrahim~-Qiimmi relates from Ab a Zar'e Ghaffari that the Holy Prophet, in conunenting on the verse "Yauma Tabyazzat wojoohohum", said: On the Resurrection Day my people will come to me under five different standards and I will ask the group under each standard about what they have done with the Two Precious Legacies which I left among you, ie. The Thaqalain? The people under the first standard will reply, "Of the two precious things which you left behind, the greater one we have distorted and thrown behind our backs and ignored, and the lesser one we opposed or hated" The group under the second standard will reply, "Of the Two Pre~ious Ones, the greater (the Qur'an) we distorted and tore to pieces and went against it, and the lesser one we opposed and waged war against it"
2 Thne Taoos and Seyyed Nairnatullali Jazairi, the two prominent Shia traditionalists relate a lengthy tradition that the Holy Prophet declared to Hozaifatibnul Yamaani that the person who profanes the sanctuary of Islam would make people deviate from the path of God, would distort His Book and would alter the Sunnat (traditions) of the Holy Prophet

3 Sa'd ibne Abdullah-e-Qummi quotes the Fifth Holy Imam of the Ahiul-Bait, Muhammad ibne Ali Al-Baqir, that the Holy Prophet called th~ people of Mina and said: Oh people! I am leaving among you Two precious things and if ye adhere to these ye will never go astray: namely the Book of God and my AhIul- Bait. And, beside these Two, here is the Ka'ba, the Sanctuary (the Holy House) Then the Holy Imam said' "The Book they have distorted, the Jtrat (the AhIul-Bait) they have killed and the Ka'ba they have destroyed, and all the things of God that were with them they threw away and detached themselves from them."

4 Shaikh-e-Sadooq asserts in his Khisaal, through Jabir ibne Abdullab-e-Ansari, that the Holy Prophet said that on the Resurrection Day three entities would complain, the Quran, the Mosque and the Itrat The Quran would say, "Oh my Lord! They distorted me and tore me to pieces." The Mosque would say, "Oh my Lord! They kept me and spoiled me." The Itrat would say, "Oh my Lord! They killed us, drove us out of our homes and made us wander hither and thither."

5 The tradition told by Kaafi and Sadooq from Mi ibne Sowaid says that he wrote to the Seventh Holy 'main, Musa ibne Jafar al-Kazim, while he was in prison and received the following reply: "They were ent"usted with the Book of God and they distorted and altered it."
6 Thne Shhhr Aashoob tells that the Third Holy 'main, Husain ibue Mi, while addressing the enemy army on the day of Aashoora, said:
Ye are of the same rebellious party and the remnant of the infidel allies (against the Holy Prophet), and the remnant of those who threw out the Book (the Holy Qur'an) and were inspired by Satan and the gang of criminals and of those who distorted the Book
7 In the book, Kacirnilur Ziyarah it is said that the Sixth Holy 'main, Jafar ibne Muhammad As-Sadiq, prescribed the following prayer for the pilgrims who entered the shrine of the Holy Irnam~ Hnaain: "Oh God! Curse those who deny Thy Prophets, destroyed Thy House (the Ka'ba) and distorted Thy Book."
8 It is said that the Sixth Holy 'main~ Jafar ibne Muhammad As-Sadiq, said, "The masters of the Arabic language distorted the Word of God from its proper place."



Edited by Fatah-Momin
IP IP Logged
Page  of 8 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com