Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Science & Technology
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology  
Message Icon Topic: quran and science Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Author Message
airmano
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
Quote airmano Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2014 at 7:21am
Wow, When you write:
"The stars are bodies of combustion producing both heat and light and the Quranic verses have no contradictions on this aspect as well. So if you living in this century of information can get your statement wrong, whereas the Quran-a book 1400 years ago gets everything right always, doesn't that look a bit supernatural?? - see we are already getting more reasons why Quran is a miracle!"

As a response I feel like making a very bold statement, which is: "A is true".

First it is it's obvious simplicity which is intriguing.
"A" being true is not in conflict to any known law of physics. "A" will always be true, no matter what happens to the world. Even when you and me are long gone, future generations will realize that "A" remains true. It is therefore a statement of ultimate wisdom. I even challenge the world to come up with a simpler (and "truer") statement and as long as there's nobody succeeding in this task I will even declare my statement as being divine.
So, jokes aside: It is the predictive and selective power which makes a statement important. When you say that the Qur'an is not in conflict with the modern knowledge of [thermonuclear reaction inside] stars and this is a sign of the Qur'an being true or divine I think you should rather consider "A" (being simpler) as the better theory to explain the universe (according to Occams razor).

Next: You where right about about my link to the Greeks, but simply copying the link and sticking it to the address bar of your browser will give you the information.

To your translation: Can "Samaa" also mean "heaven" in a purely religious sense ?

To finish: You insinuate that modern knowledge (and the associated Nobel prices) are completely irrelevant compared to the creators wisdom. Why is it than so important to you that the Qur'an is supposed to contain scientific knowledge ?

Regards: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 18 May 2014 at 2:27pm
IP IP Logged
schmikbob
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2014 at 8:32am
Quranexplorer. To satisfy my curiosity I'd like to know if your parents are believers, in Islam specifically.
IP IP Logged
Quranexplorer
Male Islam
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2014 at 10:58am
schmikbob, now even I am a bit curious what relevance this has got to the discussion!

However, I can say my father was not a practicing muslim but my mother is very much a practicing muslim, even though only Allah can have full knowledge on one's real faith.
IP IP Logged
schmikbob
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2014 at 9:40pm
Just wondering if you find it significant that most of the people on the planet follow the same religion as their parents.
IP IP Logged
Quranexplorer
Male Islam
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2014 at 1:15pm
Airmano:

The problem is you are quoting a statement told in one context in a totally different context. Let me explain you this way:

Quran gives clear differentiation of sun being a body of combustion, moon being an inert reflector and there are no contradictions on stars as well even though there are multiple references of stars in Quran including shooting stars – it makes sense when you read all these together, but if you pick only the stars part, then it doesn’t make any sense just like your “A is true” statement – if you are still in doubt, just give me an example of your “A is true” type statement in Quran which I have used in this discussion.

There are two characteristics of Quran which I would like to point out from the sun-moon-star discussion 1) Scientific references far beyond its time to differentiate the light source of sun and moon – yes, the copy-paste option worked for the “Greek link” but looks even you are not sure of its authenticity 2) Quran strikingly is devoid of human errors – you made one by making a general statement indicating moon and stars to have the same kind of light source and if you look at the “Greek link” there are plenty of examples.

Regarding “Samaa” you should have all answers at this link I referred earlier http://quransmessage.com/articles/heaven%20and%20paradise%20FM3.htm

I never said modern knowledge (and the associated Nobel prices) are completely irrelevant compared to the creators wisdom, but my point is to put to perspective that science is only a human tool and the creator’s wisdom is all encompassing far beyond any of human wisdom including science, so it is natural that Quran contains some scientific references among all other wisdom and some of these are testified by modern scientific knowledge – in a nutshell science should be viewed as an enabling factor for man to understand the grandeur of the creator, not as a tool to deny the creator.
IP IP Logged
Quranexplorer
Male Islam
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2014 at 9:04am
schmikbob:

I get your point and agree that parents’ religion has a great influence on their children, but only to the point one’s faith is challenged by his own reason. Because in an absolute sense the only thing you can say you have control is your limited free will to think and choose the path you want to follow. It is up to the individual to use his limited free will to choose the right path.

And I find it in perfect harmony when I submit my will to the will of one god-Allah. I understand my limitations as a human that none of the human tools including science or my reason has the capability to be an absolute authority to answer everything. I find it extremely soothing when I humble my mind in front of this absolute power and use my human faculties to the extent it is capable and then seek Allah’s guidance when the demand is beyond my capabilities.

This Quranic verse sums up my experience:

Al Rad 13:28: Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest!

Edited by Quranexplorer - 23 May 2014 at 1:22pm
IP IP Logged
airmano
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
Quote airmano Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2014 at 2:09pm
Airmano:
Originally posted by Quranexplorer

The problem is you are quoting a statement told in one context in a totally different context.

Could you tell me what I missed/hid/ misunderstood ?
What I see however is that a really trivial statement like "the sun is hot/heats" gets quickly re-interpreted into a miracle.
Where do I find knowledge about the interplay between nuclear force and Coulomb potential, the CNO-cycle, the opposing forces of heat/expansion and gravity/shrinkage inside a star, in the Quran ?

Again the Greeks: The fact that I was to lazy to check doesn't prove me wrong - did you check and find a differing information ?

Now to Samaa: I found this one:Samaa. This makes me believe that Samaa may also mean "heaven". In this sense the interpretation of the verse: "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water?" makes much more sense when taken as the biblical logic of man being expelled from paradise than any pseudo-scientific interpretation.

Now:
Originally posted by Quranexplorer

Give me an example of your “A is true” type statement in Quran which I have used in this discussion
This is easy: Since the Quran doesn't say anything about thermonuclear reactions inside stars it can logically also not be in conflict with this very knowledge we have nowadays - nor does my "A" statement b.t.w.

Last not least: The Quran always right? Do you seriously believe that 23:14 "Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation" is really in line with modern knowledge of embryology ? (please! No Keith L. Moore here !)

Glad to be of service: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 23 May 2014 at 2:36pm
IP IP Logged
Quranexplorer
Male Islam
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2014 at 6:06am
Airmano,

Looks like this is just going around in circles – I just explained above why just picking the stars part alone from the discussion does not make any sense just like your “A is true” statement, but you again come back with the same argument.

The bottom line is you seems to come from a view point that you can accept anything but not Quran and nobody can really convince you because you’ve already decided you don’t want to – a straight interpretation of “samaa” verse from Quran won’t impress you but you have no qualms to believe a biblical logic which makes no sense in this context! And what surety is there you will accept Quran if it expressly mentions the “thermo nuclear” and stuff like that, because human excuses can have no limit. I’m not surprised because Quran talks about this behaviour also :

At-Tur 52:44: And if they were to see a fragment of the heaven falling, they would say: A heap of clouds.

Al-Baqara 2:118: And those who have no knowledge say: Why doth not Allah speak unto us, or some sign come unto us? Even thus, as they now speak, spake those (who were) before them. Their hearts are all alike. We have made clear the revelations for people who are sure.

I’m not really concerned about the Greek link as I find the overall wisdom of Quran much above any of human sources.

However, if you really have some reasons to believe that 23:14 have some contradictions with the modern scientific knowledge I am happy to discuss.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com