Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: Yusuf Islam Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 6 Next >>
Author Message
islamhussain
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 28 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Quote islamhussain Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 1:37pm

Has anyone actually listened to Yusuf Islam's interview on Radio five live?

the link is available here....

http://www.mobile786.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17

Islam
-------------------------
http://www.mobile786.com
IP IP Logged
Yusuf.
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2001
Location: far from home
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2385
Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by blond

Originally posted by Yusuf.

[QUOTE=blond][QUOTE=Yusuf.][QUOTE=blond]

Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a bit busy till evening, but briefly: in the passage you quote, Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is addressing the angels. Throughout the Holy Qur'an, "We" is used by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, in His relationship to the angels. Thus, the usage is both consistent and logical, since the angels are also servants, but since they lack the knowledge man possesses, they cannot have the intimate relationship with Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, that man can have Insha'Allah.

Allah 'Alim

But if "We" created Adam, then Adam would make submission to "Us".  But to the contrary, the angels were ordered to make submission to Adam. So I don't agree that the "We" here is referring to Allah and the angels. According to what we read, the angels did not create Adam, they bowed to him at the order of Allah.

I hope you don't feel I am being a "smart alec" by pointing this out, and I hope you are offended. I am just pointing out what my study has manifested and I am striving to learn more.

Thank you.

Assalamu alaikum,

I guess i wasn't very clear. The "we" is the royal "we" indicating distance between Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and his servants, in this instance the angels. But the "we" refers to Allah Alone, subhanahu wa ta'ala.



Edited by Yusuf.
Yusuf
IP IP Logged
blond
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 218
Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 4:14am
Originally posted by Yusuf.

Originally posted by blond

Originally posted by Yusuf.

[QUOTE=blond][QUOTE=Yusuf.][QUOTE=blond]

Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a bit busy till evening, but briefly: in the passage you quote, Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is addressing the angels. Throughout the Holy Qur'an, "We" is used by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, in His relationship to the angels. Thus, the usage is both consistent and logical, since the angels are also servants, but since they lack the knowledge man possesses, they cannot have the intimate relationship with Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, that man can have Insha'Allah.

Allah 'Alim

But if "We" created Adam, then Adam would make submission to "Us".  But to the contrary, the angels were ordered to make submission to Adam. So I don't agree that the "We" here is referring to Allah and the angels. According to what we read, the angels did not create Adam, they bowed to him at the order of Allah.

I hope you don't feel I am being a "smart alec" by pointing this out, and I hope you are offended. I am just pointing out what my study has manifested and I am striving to learn more.

Thank you.

Assalamu alaikum,

I guess i wasn't very clear. The "we" is the royal "we" indicating distance between Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and his servants, in this instance the angels. But the "we" refers to Allah Alone, subhanahu wa ta'ala.

 

Since Allah knows best the precise language of Arabic in which He revealed the Quran, why use "We", when He really means "I"; why use "Us" when He really mean "Me". This royal "We" is Allah, and Allah is not confused over the identity of the "We".

I am not confused on the subject, but I really want to encourage discussion on the subject.



Edited by blond
IP IP Logged
ummziba
Female  Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1158
Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 4:25am

Blond,

Perhaps you should open a new thread on the topic of Allah's pronouns in the Qur'an if you would like to explore this more as we are getting rather off topic!

I'll just put in my two cents.  It is my understanding that Allah is undefinable to the human mind.  It is also my understanding that perhaps Allah uses various pronouns (we, us, etc.) to emphasize that we cannot fathom our Sustainer at all.  If only 'he' or 'I' were used we might form a picture of a "male person", which would not be correct.  Allah is beyond our comprehension and the varied pronouns just support that idea.  (*Perhaps pronoun is not the correct term!!!?)

Apologies to Islamhussain for getting off your topic!

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
IP IP Logged
blond
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 218
Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 4:51am

 

Thank you.

IP IP Logged
Yusuf.
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2001
Location: far from home
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2385
Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 8:56am

Originally posted by blond

Since Allah knows best the precise language of Arabic in which He revealed the Quran, why use "We", when He really means "I"; why use "Us" when He really mean "Me". This royal "We" is Allah, and Allah is not confused over the identity of the "We".

I am not confused on the subject, but I really want to encourage discussion on the subject.

Assalamu alaikum,

because the royal "we" is in fact an acceptable, widely used and, with all due respect, universally understood literary device that really poses no serious problems. The fact that many westerners do not understand this device is the result of the lack of proper education in the field of rhetoric. Anyone who has read the seminal works of English literature would automatically understand this device, as I did when I first read a translation of the Holy Qur'an.

I am constantly shocked at the low level of understanding of English, their native language, demonstrated by young people in college. The pathetic state of affairs in western education should not be used to criticize the majestic style of the Holy Qur'an, whose clarity in this matter is unquestionable.

I will not be saying any more on this subject.



Edited by Yusuf.
Yusuf
IP IP Logged
blond
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 218
Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Yusuf.

Originally posted by blond

Since Allah knows best the precise language of Arabic in which He revealed the Quran, why use "We", when He really means "I"; why use "Us" when He really mean "Me". This royal "We" is Allah, and Allah is not confused over the identity of the "We".

I am not confused on the subject, but I really want to encourage discussion on the subject.

Assalamu alaikum,

because the royal "we" is in fact an acceptable, widely used and, with all due respect, universally understood literary device that really poses no serious problems. The fact that many westerners do not understand this device is the result of the lack of proper education in the field of rhetoric. Anyone who has read the seminal works of English literature would automatically understand this device, as I did when I first read a translation of the Holy Qur'an.

I am constantly shocked at the low level of understanding of English, their native language, demonstrated by young people in college. The pathetic state of affairs in western education should not be used to criticize the majestic style of the Holy Qur'an, whose clarity in this matter is unquestionable.

I will not be saying any more on this subject.

Thank you.

Your comment sounds as though you have distain for those who you feel do not know as much as you do. I could be incorrect, but that is the perception that is conveyed.

This is a character defect that you will need to correct, to be truly effective at teaching any subject.

I apologize for frustrating you.

IP IP Logged
Yusuf.
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2001
Location: far from home
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2385
Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2005 at 12:17pm

Originally posted by blond

Thank you.

Your comment sounds as though you have distain for those who you feel do not know as much as you do. I could be incorrect, but that is the perception that is conveyed.

This is a character defect that you will need to correct, to be truly effective at teaching any subject.

I apologize for frustrating you.

Assalamu alaikum

I have disdain, and contempt, for the educational system of the west, which produces individuals who are only semi-literate in their own language. The people themselves are not to blame, of course.

And I have many, many character defects to correct!!!!!

 

Yusuf
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 6 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com