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nadir
 
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Quote nadir Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 7:58am
Originally posted by semar

Salam,

But in many verses in the Quran Allah asks us to use our brain, our mind, to think. Thinking is always comes from "why". It's not fair if Allah asks us to use our brain and on the other hand we can not ask "why" to understand Allah's law.

If so we don't need any more Islamic scholars just follow the text that already written, it has everything, don't ask , just do it. So we will be "taqlid" (follow blindly).

This is probably why Muslim declined since 1100 because they discouraged to ask "why".

Allah knows best.

 

Wa-Alaikum Salaam wa Rahmatullah

Semar

 

 

I agree that we should use the gifts Allah (SWT) has bestowed upon us, otherwise He would not have given us those attributes (He would have given us wings, if He wanted us to fly).

 

My point is that I am looking at ‘the big picture’, this forum is a public place, and hence any one (Muslim or non-Muslim) may pass through (casually or otherwise).

 

It is upon this premise that I state – submit to the best of your ability (closest to the ways of the Qur’an & Prophet’s [SAW] Sunnah), now, as currently we do not have the attributes to be able to question Allah’s (SWT) will (ie His Messenger [SAW]). The questions/doubts we may have about ‘clear or unclear’ areas, will, Insha Allah, be explained within time.

 

So yes I agree, it strengthens one’s faith to actually know why we are required to perform/refrain from certain acts, however if you are truly sincere in your belief, you will submit now, & trust Allah (SWT) will calm one’s heart, with regards to our incessant - needing to know why? Because I might know better!    

 

It is not my intention to judge any as non-Muslim, rather I am thinking of the example we are setting for all whom are brought to view ‘us’.

 

 

 

Al-Hamdulilah

 

 

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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 8:24am

"7:11. And We indeed created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Make submission to Adam. So they submitted, except Iblis; he was not of those who submitted."

This has been a sore spot for many in Islam, because we make submission to none but Allah. Who is the "We", since Allah has no parnters? The Arabic name used is not Adam, it is Khalifa. The meaning of Khalifa is "one who takes the place of another who has died". That definition opens up a whole world of debate, because Allah never dies.

My point is, Adam was a man whom Allah named Khalifa. Is Adam the potential of all of humanity? If so, we all have the potential to become Khalifa and wield great power over creation from Allah.

We cannot grow without the ability to respectfully question our Creator.



Edited by blond
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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 9:13am
Originally posted by blond

"7:11. And We indeed created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Make submission to Adam. So they submitted, except Iblis; he was not of those who submitted."

This has been a sore spot for many in Islam, because we make submission to none but Allah. Who is the "We", since Allah has no parnters?

Assalamu alaikum,

It is the royal "we," which is a very common  device in many languages, including English. The English kings/queens regularly referred to themselves as "we," as in the phrase "we are not amused."

In the Holy Qur'an, it is used for rhetorical purposes. "We" is used to imply distance between Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and His servants. "I" is used when Allah's closeness to His servants is emphasized. An excellent example of the use of this device in the Holy Qur'an can be found in Sura Ta Ha, where "we" ("nah.nu") is used to decribe Allah's acts, but "I" ("ana") is used when Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, speaks to Musa, alaihi salam.



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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Yusuf.

Originally posted by blond

"7:11. And We indeed created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Make submission to Adam. So they submitted, except Iblis; he was not of those who submitted."

This has been a sore spot for many in Islam, because we make submission to none but Allah. Who is the "We", since Allah has no parnters?

Assalamu alaikum,

It is the royal "we," which is a very common  device in many languages, including English. The English kings/queens regularly referred to themselves as "we," as in the phrase "we are not amused."

In the Holy Qur'an, it is used for rhetorical purposes. "We" is used to imply distance between Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and His servants.

W.A.S.

With all due respect to you, When the personal pronoun "We" (referring to Allah) is used, it is BEFORE Adam's creation. How could Allah display nearness to HIS servants, or their works before they existed, by calling Himself "We"? That does not make sense to me.

"We" can't take credit for "Our" creation, before "We" were born.

Who, then, is the "We" referring to?

Also, "And We indeed created you, then We fashioned you", and then, in the middle of the sentence, Allah speaks in the past tense of Adam, "then We said to the angels: Make submission to Adam." as though Allah is calling us Adam. The angels were ordered to make submission to Adam and all submitted, except for Iblis.

This is facinating to me. I love language and I sincerely want to know Allah's meaning of His Book. So, I study every word.



Edited by blond
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Quote nadir Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 10:58am

As-Salaamu Alaikum

Dear blond, 

Narrated Anas bin Malik (may Allah be pleased with him); Allah's Messenger (SAW) said, "People will not stop asking questions till they say, This is Allah, the Creator of everything, then who created Allah?” [9:399 O.B.]

Please do not think my quoting this Hadith is a means to dodge your issue, I would love to give you an answer from my own interpretation of the matter, but I am going to first see if Yusuf knows of an article on the matter (by a scholar/learned man), that we may read?

Wa-Salaam

nadir
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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 11:02am
Originally posted by nadir

As-Salaamu Alaikum

Dear blond, 

Narrated Anas bin Malik (may Allah be pleased with him); Allah's Messenger (SAW) said, "People will not stop asking questions till they say, This is Allah, the Creator of everything, then who created Allah?” [9:399 O.B.]

Please do not think my quoting this Hadith is a means to dodge your issue, I would love to give you an answer from my own interpretation of the matter, but I am going to first see if Yusuf knows of an article on the matter (by a scholar/learned man), that we may read?

Wa-Salaam

nadir

 

Yessir.

"4:153. The People of the Book ask thee to bring down to them a Book from heaven; indeed they demanded of Moses a greater thing than that, for they said: Show us Allah manifestly. So destructive punishment overtook them on account of their wrongdoing. Then they took the calf (for a god), after clear signs had come to them, but We pardoned this. And We gave Moses clear authority."

I understand your point of view. But, that evil intent is not in my heart.

I want to be the full manifestation of what I am created to be, to serve the full purpose for my creation. This is the reason for my perspective on study and accuracy.

Thank you.



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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 11:06am
Originally posted by blond

Originally posted by Yusuf.

Originally posted by blond

"7:11. And We indeed created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Make submission to Adam. So they submitted, except Iblis; he was not of those who submitted."

This has been a sore spot for many in Islam, because we make submission to none but Allah. Who is the "We", since Allah has no parnters?

Assalamu alaikum,

It is the royal "we," which is a very common  device in many languages, including English. The English kings/queens regularly referred to themselves as "we," as in the phrase "we are not amused."

In the Holy Qur'an, it is used for rhetorical purposes. "We" is used to imply distance between Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and His servants.

W.A.S.

With all due respect to you, When the personal pronoun "We" (referring to Allah) is used, it is BEFORE Adam's creation. How could Allah display nearness to HIS servants, or their works before they existed, by calling Himself "We"? That does not make sense to me.

Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a bit busy till evening, but briefly: in the passage you quote, Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is addressing the angels. Throughout the Holy Qur'an, "We" is used by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, in His relationship to the angels. Thus, the usage is both consistent and logical, since the angels are also servants, but since they lack the knowledge man possesses, they cannot have the intimate relationship with Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, that man can have Insha'Allah.

Allah 'Alim

Yusuf
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blond
 
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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2005 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Yusuf.

[QUOTE=blond][QUOTE=Yusuf.][QUOTE=blond]

Assalamu alaikum,

I'm a bit busy till evening, but briefly: in the passage you quote, Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is addressing the angels. Throughout the Holy Qur'an, "We" is used by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, in His relationship to the angels. Thus, the usage is both consistent and logical, since the angels are also servants, but since they lack the knowledge man possesses, they cannot have the intimate relationship with Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, that man can have Insha'Allah.

Allah 'Alim

But if "We" created Adam, then Adam would make submission to "Us".  But to the contrary, the angels were ordered to make submission to Adam. So I don't agree that the "We" here is referring to Allah and the angels. According to what we read, the angels did not create Adam, they bowed to him at the order of Allah.

I hope you don't feel I am being a "smart alec" by pointing this out, and I hope you are offended. I am just pointing out what my study has manifested and I am striving to learn more.

Thank you.



Edited by blond
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