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Prophets - Jesus
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Prophets - Jesus
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2014 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Caringheart wrote: In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

The point you raise has puzzled me for thirty years. Judaism and Islam are almost identical. The only significant difference I can think of is that Jews drink alcohol and Muslims don't.

The claim some Muslims make that Jews worship Ezra is, of course, bogus. Certainly, no modern day Jews worship Ezra. I kind of think of Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam).


Your knowledge about Islam is poor at best so you should probably keep your mouth shut lest you look like a fool. 

The Quran states that certain Jews in the Prophet's time believed that Ezra was the son of God.  It does not mean that the Quran is accusing all Jews of this. 

As for your unsubstantiated claim that Islam is a sect of Judaism or vice versa, that is just more hot air.  If anything, Christianity is a sect of Judaism because that is where Christianity had its origins.  It started as a Jewish sect and eventually grew further apart as it adopted Pauline theology.           
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2014 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Caringheart wrote: In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

The point you raise has puzzled me for thirty years. Judaism and Islam are almost identical. The only significant difference I can think of is that Jews drink alcohol and Muslims don't.

The claim some Muslims make that Jews worship Ezra is, of course, bogus. Certainly, no modern day Jews worship Ezra. I kind of think of Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam).

Your knowledge about Islam is poor at best so you should probably keep your mouth shut lest you look like a fool. 

The Quran states that certain Jews in the Prophet's time believed that Ezra was the son of God.  It does not mean that the Quran is accusing all Jews of this. 

As for your unsubstantiated claim that Islam is a sect of Judaism or vice versa, that is just more hot air.  If anything, Christianity is a sect of Judaism because that is where Christianity had its origins.  It started as a Jewish sect and eventually grew further apart as it adopted Pauline theology.           

Greetings islamispeace,

It is hard to understand when people react with hostility.
Did you not notice that reepicheep said;
      "The claim some Muslims make"
I do not take this as accusing the qur'an of anything.
and he also was equal in his statement of;
      "Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam)"
not treating one any differently over the other.
I agree with him, Judaism and Islam are hardly different from one another.  Islam takes the people back to the first covenant, the one that was replaced by the new covenant of Yshwe, when God 'did a new thing', and disregards the new covenant of Yshwe.

asalaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 04 March 2014 at 5:49pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Lachi
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Quote Lachi Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2014 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Islam takes the people back to the first covenant, the one that was replaced by the new covenant of Yshwe, when God 'did a new thing', and disregards the new covenant of Yshwe.asalaam,Caringheart


This was my understanding. It prompted the OP as to what was the point of Jesus. Why was the new covenant introduced, only to be then replaced with the Quran which takes you back to the old covenant? Why the interlude, which seems to have been a failure?
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2014 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by Lachi

Originally posted by Caringheart


Islam takes the people back to the first covenant, the one that was replaced by the new covenant of Yshwe, when God 'did a new thing', and disregards the new covenant of Yshwe.asalaam,Caringheart


This was my understanding. It prompted the OP as to what was the point of Jesus. Why was the new covenant introduced, only to be then replaced with the Quran which takes you back to the old covenant? Why the interlude, which seems to have been a failure?

Greetings Lachi,

I don't know if it is an actual question you are asking, or just a statement you are making, but my answer to this, obviously is, that the new covenant was, and is, not a failure, but is the true Word of God, and it is the Qur'an which came later which is false because it does away with the new covenant... it negates Christ.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2014 at 5:08am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Lachi,

I don't know if it is an actual question you are asking, or just a statement you are making, but my answer to this, obviously is, that the new covenant was, and is, not a failure, but is the true Word of God, and it is the Qur'an which came later which is false because it does away with the new covenant... it negates Christ.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart
The New Covenant you are talking about is not from Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) but from the chief charlatan Paul. Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) did not come to establish a new covenant but to bring the Chidlren of Israel back to God.
 
There is only one covenant of God established through Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) and is continued to this day by Islam and Muslims.
 
If you get rid of this fantasy of the New Covenant you will see things more clearly. You have tunnel vision hence the reason you cannot see the whole picture.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2014 at 5:12am
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Caringheart wrote: In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

The point you raise has puzzled me for thirty years. Judaism and Islam are almost identical. The only significant difference I can think of is that Jews drink alcohol and Muslims don't.

The claim some Muslims make that Jews worship Ezra is, of course, bogus. Certainly, no modern day Jews worship Ezra. I kind of think of Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam).
Mr Reeping the cheep
 
I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.
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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2014 at 7:24am
Abu Loren wrote: I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.

If the Jews practice something which comes from God, then I assume it is possible for people who practice Judaism to go to heaven?
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 March 2014 at 2:45am
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.

If the Jews practice something which comes from God, then I assume it is possible for people who practice Judaism to go to heaven?
Sahih International
 
And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.
And they said, "Our hearts are wrapped." But, [in fact], Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is it that they believe.
And when there came to them a Book from Allah confirming that which was with them - although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved - but [then] when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of Allah will be upon the disbelievers.
2:87=89
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