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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Topic: Original Sin?
    Posted: 25 January 2014 at 5:09am
No such thing. If you read the Old Testament particularly Genesis where the story of the Adam and Eve is portrayed then you will not find The Lord Our God cursing Adam and Eve or their offspring until a blood atonement is given. Rather it was the chief charlatan and the self appointed apostle Paul who never met nor saw a vision of the risen Jesus (Alayhi Salaam ) that has alluded to this false tale. Of course this is a great injustice, and God does injustice to no one.

Imagine your father and mother committed a crime and they are incarcerated for their crime but on top of that all of their offspring are found guilty also and the descendants will all spent their lives in prison. Does that make sense to anyone? NO. The reason for that is because it is incomprehensible, even for a child.

I do not understand why the Christians find it so difficult to understand the concept of forgiveness. Adam and Eve sinned for sure but they were forgiven when they repented. What do you do when you sin? You fall down on your face and prostrate to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and ask for forgiveness.
Simple. However, in our case we will only know if we were forgiven on the Day of Resurrection.

So Christians throw the concept of Original Sin out of the window and blame Paul for what he was.

Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala says in the Qur'an that those who followed the misguides will follow them into hell fire and the misguides will be at the front leading them on. In Paul's case there will be a huge queue behind as there will be billions of people following him.

May Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala have mercy on us all and grant us Jannatul Firdous and save us from Jahannam. Ameen.

Edited by Abu Loren - 25 January 2014 at 5:11am
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White*Knight
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Quote White*Knight Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2014 at 8:33am
Peace and God's blessings be upon you

While I was reading the Old Testament, I wondered how the Christians believe in the Holy Trinity and the concept of "Original sin". Both of them do not exist in the Old Testament O.o

Thanks for posting that excellent thread :) Keep up xD
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2014 at 2:57am
Wa Alaikkum Asalaam

I'm very surprised that no Christian has jumped down my throat defending this. (From Paul's epistles, of course).
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2014 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Raytrek

The story of Adam and Eve is really about the separation of humans from the animals; the distinguishing feature that sets humans apart from animals is the ability of concept, animals cannot attain conceptual understanding.

"They ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad" before they did not know disobeying God was bad, after they hide from him, before they had no sense of shame from nakedness, after they covered themselves, before they had no concept of death, after they did, before they had no concept of morality, after they did.

These are all traits of conceptual reason, and that the Bible says all of humanity inherited death from Adam, more the concept of time, knowing we will die is what we inherited, where as animals may have instinct for self preservation but they do not have the concept of mortal linear existence.

The knowledge of good and bad, as morals, ethics and virtues are a knowledge of good and bad, this is the fruit, the original sin, without eating of it there would not exist sin, sin is just a concept we thought up by human perspective of what we like and don't like, what we benefit from and not. In the act of establishing what we want and need versus what we do not want and do not need, we spawn fear and desire, fear of things we don't want or need, fear of losing what we do want and need, desire for things we decide are good, etc. In effect; our wants and needs become weakness that we are manipulated by and they spawn irrational behaviour.

In my opinion, that is the story of Adam and Eve.


Actually the story in the Bible about Adam and Eve are pretty close to the truth but there is doubt as to satan became a serpent to entice them and after eating from the tree the concept of original sin.

Sahih International

And We had already taken a promise from Adam before, but he forgot; and We found not in him determination.
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused.
So We said, "O Adam, indeed this is an enemy to you and to your wife. Then let him not remove you from Paradise so you would suffer.
Indeed, it is [promised] for you not to be hungry therein or be unclothed.
And indeed, you will not be thirsty therein or be hot from the sun."
Then Satan whispered to him; he said, "O Adam, shall I direct you to the tree of eternity and possession that will not deteriorate?"
And Adam and his wife ate of it, and their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And Adam disobeyed his Lord and erred.
Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him].
20:115-122
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2014 at 6:48pm

Christianity has to sell this concept of original sin so they can sell the concept of blood of Christ (they don't see this (the Blood) when they say "Prince of Peace"). They may be very good salespersons but their product is really bad without any sense or truth. In particular, when their own book states that: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin" Deut 24:16
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2014 at 1:05pm
“There came unto me two men, clothed in white, with a gold basin full of snow. Then they laid upon me, and, splitting open my breast, they brought forth my heart. This likewise they split open and took from it a black clot which they cast away. Then they washed my heart and my breast with the snow” (Martin Lings, Muhammad: His Life, Based on the Earliest Sources, 1991). Muhammad then repeated the verse, found in the Hadith, “Satan toucheth every son of Adam the day his mother beareth him, save only Mary and her son.”
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2014 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

“There came unto me two men, clothed in white, with a gold basin full of snow. Then they laid upon me, and, splitting open my breast, they brought forth my heart. This likewise they split open and took from it a black clot which they cast away. Then they washed my heart and my breast with the snow” (Martin Lings, Muhammad: His Life, Based on the Earliest Sources, 1991). Muhammad then repeated the verse, found in the Hadith, “Satan toucheth every son of Adam the day his mother beareth him, save only Mary and her son.”


So, Caringheart decides to educate Muslims and change the subject instead of offering any sort of substantive rebuttal to the actual topic.  Why am I not surprised? 

Earth to Caringheart: Islam does not, repeat, DOES NOT teach the concept of original sin.  Rather, it teaches that all humans are born pure and free of sin.  The fact that Satan touches every baby does not mean that everyone is born with original sin.  After all, Satan only touches the baby after its birth! 

The Quran and Sunnah explicitly state that everyone is responsible for their own actions:

"Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul draws the meed of its acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards Allah: He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."" (Surah Al-Anaam, 6:164) 

"
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but upon fitra. He then said. Recite: The nature made by Allah in which He created man, there is no altering of Allah's nature; that is the right religion."” (Sahih Muslim)

Moral of the story: Original sin is just another belief invented by the church and Caringheart is living in a fantasy world.


Edited by islamispeace - 22 April 2014 at 3:55pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2014 at 4:59pm
As I study, I share.  Smile

Original sin simply means separation from God.  No human being can come into the presence of God because of the separation caused by the actions of the first creation... known as Adam and Eve.
Only by the shedding of the blood... the purification of the spirit through the shedding of the blood... can we once again come into the presence of the Creator.
The life is in the blood...

39 ... he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. - the words of Yshwe(known as Messiah... i.e., Christ)



Edited by Caringheart - 22 April 2014 at 5:04pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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