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Rehmat

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Posted: 30 March 2005 at 3:03am

Originally posted by Angel

....And by the way, there's another hmmmm...72 sects, 72 virgins - a conspiracy going on

nausheen should have left the conspiracy forum

Think this way - Jews and Christians are jealous that we may get 72 virgins, but none for them.

Wa Salaam

Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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rami
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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 5:39am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

>>>There are several Haddiths which mentions division of Ummah into 72 or so, sects.<<<

Yes but it seems your understaning of the term sect in islam is not correct. It does not mean any group in the muslims ummah, it is rediculous to say every muslim group is a sect. Sunni islam is not a sect in Islam , The mahdhabs which consist of roughly 90% of all sunni muslims can not be called a sect no matter how much "spin" you put on the term. The scholars of islam have all followed a madhhab even those the salafi's follow so unless you are not sunni i dont see from what angle you are making this point.

>>>The word "Madhab" has different meanings in different languages - for example in Persian and Urdu, it means 'religion'.<<<

That is not relavent. Do you know what a madhhab is?

>>>The 'four' are not 'madhabs', but "Schools of Fiqah (Jurisdiction)" - the fifth being "Fiqah-e-Ja'afariah".<<<

There is no such thing as a Ja'fariah madhhab from sunni point of view, Obviously you are shia then br?

>>>As I posted earlier - Sufi could belong to Shi'ite or Sunni denomination of Islam. Historically, it were the Sufi Safvid dynasty, which converted Sunni majority into a minority in Iran, over a few centuries ago.<<<

Sufi's can be shia or sunni that is true, but a person can only understand how if he knows what Sufism/Tassawuf is. If you understand that then you know that calling sufis a sect is like saying anyone who practised Usul al fiqh belongs to a sect which is rediculous.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Rehmat

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 8:53am

Originally posted by rami

....Yes but it seems your understaning of the term sect in islam is not correct...

Hmmmmmm! That's your word against me. Who is going to decide?

Sunni islam is not a sect in Islam , The mahdhabs which consist of roughly 90% of all sunni muslims can not be called a sect no matter how much "spin" you put on the term

Wrong again. As I wrote earlier, Sunnis (if Salafis and Wahabbi allows you to count - Hannafi, Maliki, Sufis, Nakshbandis, Deobandis, etc. as Sunnis then they constitute 85% of Muslims out of 1.5 billion, according to Saudi 'World Muslim League'! And I am not even excluding the 25 million Qadianis either!

The scholars of islam have all followed a madhhab even those the salafi's follow so unless you are not sunni i dont see from what angle you are making this point

Which scholars, dear? Does your list also includes Imam Ja'afar Sadiq (ra), who happened to be teacher of Imam Abu Hannifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra)?

As for 'my angle' is concerned - it goes straight to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who never called himself a Sunni - or did he?

Do you know what a madhhab is

No, the 'Learned one' - but can you teach me?

There is no such thing as a Ja'fariah madhhab from sunni point of view, Obviously you are shia then br?

I give a hoot what your point of view is - because I never live in 'self-denial'. As I noted above - both Maliki and Hannafi 'Fiqah' are influenced by 'Fiqah-e-Ja'afari'.

Thanks for avoiding to call me a 'Kafir'! Because, just being a 'Muslim' never satisfy the sectarians.

I could post a Salafi website to show how misinformed you're about sects - But then it would be just like advertising an Israeli website.

Any comments on that?

Wa Salaam.

Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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Nausheen
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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 8:54am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

Brother Rami,

I remember reading a detailed description of the 73 sects in Islam from "Al Ghuniya liTalibi Tariq'al Haqq"... it was made online by sunnah.org. I cannot find it thru their search anymore, but it answers manythings that you would want to say on this topic.

I am not so sure if i posted on the old forum, but surely if you do a thorough search, you should be able to find it.

Maa salaama,

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Suleyman

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 11:33am

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

We are going got discuss the issue at the weekend,till to that time i suggest from you staying in calm and not loosing the peace tune....think about that...all of the users in the thread are caring to islam and doing their bests;no bad person inside of us...evil loves these issues to destroy the peace between the muslims as we have seen in the past...let's give all our hands to each other finding the truth;at least understanding each other;politeness is the door of understanding to each other..we are all loving Allah and caring to Qur'an;no chance to evil and Qur'an is not an chaos book...let's meet at the weekend,everybody will be relaxed and cool then we will deeply discuss....i call everyone to discuss,to put their efforts after a dua to Allah for the finding the best in with all good intentions and concerns inside the science of shariat...

Edited by Suleyman

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blond

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:32pm

I have a question.

I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94

"O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do."

I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this.

However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that.

Could someone please speak to this issue?

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Suleyman

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:38pm

Originally posted by blond

I have a question.

I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94

"O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do."

I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this.

However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that.

Could someone please speak to this issue?

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

Blond,i did not put these pics as reflecting them the idols of mine;no they aren't...i love and respect them;but my only idol is Allah...two complaints on my pics makes me to delete them...this is the best,i think...

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blond

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:48pm

Originally posted by Suleyman

Originally posted by blond

I have a question.

I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94

"O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do."

I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this.

However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that.

Could someone please speak to this issue?

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

No Sir! Please don't take offense to my questions.

Please, don't feel inclined to take down the people who you respect on my account. I don't think you are wrong to honor the people who taught you. I was just wondering what you all think about the kind of standard I mentioned, that is all.

I apologize to you for offending you.

Edited by blond

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Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Posted: 30 March 2005 at 3:03am
	*Originally posted by Angel* ....And by the way, there's another hmmmm...72 sects, 72 virgins - a conspiracy going on nausheen should have left the conspiracy forum Think this way - Jews and Christians are jealous that we may get 72 virgins, but none for them. Wa Salaam
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
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rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 5:39am
	Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem assalamu alaikum >>>There are several Haddiths which mentions division of Ummah into 72 or so, sects.<<< Yes but it seems your understaning of the term sect in islam is not correct. It does not mean any group in the muslims ummah, it is rediculous to say every muslim group is a sect. Sunni islam is not a sect in Islam , The mahdhabs which consist of roughly 90% of all sunni muslims can not be called a sect no matter how much "spin" you put on the term. The scholars of islam have all followed a madhhab even those the salafi's follow so unless you are not sunni i dont see from what angle you are making this point. >>>The word "Madhab" has different meanings in different languages - for example in Persian and Urdu, it means 'religion'.<<< That is not relavent. Do you know what a madhhab is? >>>The 'four' are not 'madhabs', but "Schools of Fiqah (Jurisdiction)" - the fifth being "Fiqah-e-Ja'afariah".<<< There is no such thing as a Ja'fariah madhhab from sunni point of view, Obviously you are shia then br? >>>As I posted earlier - Sufi could belong to Shi'ite or Sunni denomination of Islam. Historically, it were the Sufi Safvid dynasty, which converted Sunni majority into a minority in Iran, over a few centuries ago.<<< Sufi's can be shia or sunni that is true, but a person can only understand how if he knows what Sufism/Tassawuf is. If you understand that then you know that calling sufis a sect is like saying anyone who practised Usul al fiqh belongs to a sect which is rediculous.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 8:53am
	*Originally posted by rami* ....Yes but it seems your understaning of the term sect in islam is not correct... Hmmmmmm! That's your word against me. Who is going to decide? Sunni islam is not a sect in Islam , The mahdhabs which consist of roughly 90% of all sunni muslims can not be called a sect no matter how much "spin" you put on the term . Wrong again. As I wrote earlier, Sunnis (if Salafis and Wahabbi allows you to count - Hannafi, Maliki, Sufis, Nakshbandis, Deobandis, etc. as Sunnis then they constitute 85% of Muslims out of 1.5 billion, according to Saudi 'World Muslim League'! And I am not even excluding the 25 million Qadianis either! The scholars of islam have all followed a madhhab even those the salafi's follow so unless you are not sunni i dont see from what angle you are making this point . Which scholars, dear? Does your list also includes Imam Ja'afar Sadiq (ra), who happened to be teacher of Imam Abu Hannifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra)? As for 'my angle' is concerned - it goes straight to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who never called himself a Sunni - or did he? Do you know what a madhhab is ? No, the 'Learned one' - but can you teach me? There is no such thing as a Ja'fariah madhhab from sunni point of view, Obviously you are shia then br? I give a hoot what your point of view is - because I never live in 'self-denial'. As I noted above - both Maliki and Hannafi 'Fiqah' are influenced by 'Fiqah-e-Ja'afari'. Thanks for avoiding to call me a 'Kafir'! Because, just being a 'Muslim' never satisfy the sectarians. Sufi's can be shia or sunni that is true, but a person can only understand how if he knows what Sufism/Tassawuf is. If you understand that then you know that calling sufis a sect is like saying anyone who practised Usul al fiqh belongs to a sect which is rediculous . I could post a Salafi website to show how misinformed you're about sects - But then it would be just like advertising an Israeli website. Any comments on that? Wa Salaam.
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 8:54am
	*Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,* *Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim,* Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu, Brother Rami, I remember reading a detailed description of the 73 sects in Islam from "Al Ghuniya liTalibi Tariq'al Haqq"... it was made online by sunnah.org. I cannot find it thru their search anymore, but it answers manythings that you would want to say on this topic. I am not so sure if i posted on the old forum, but surely if you do a thorough search, you should be able to find it. Maa salaama,
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
	IP Logged

Suleyman Senior Member Joined: 10 March 2003 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3324	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 11:33am
	Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh, We are going got discuss the issue at the weekend,till to that time i suggest from you staying in calm and not loosing the peace tune....think about that...all of the users in the thread are caring to islam and doing their bests;no bad person inside of us...evil loves these issues to destroy the peace between the muslims as we have seen in the past...let's give all our hands to each other finding the truth;at least understanding each other;politeness is the door of understanding to each other..we are all loving Allah and caring to Qur'an;no chance to evil and Qur'an is not an chaos book...let's meet at the weekend,everybody will be relaxed and cool then we will deeply discuss....i call everyone to discuss,to put their efforts after a dua to Allah for the finding the best in with all good intentions and concerns inside the science of shariat... Edited by Suleyman
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blond Senior Member Joined: 30 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 218	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:32pm
	I have a question. I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94 "O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do." I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this. However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that. Could someone please speak to this issue?
	IP Logged

Suleyman Senior Member Joined: 10 March 2003 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3324	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:38pm
	*Originally posted by blond* I have a question. I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94 "O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do." I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this. However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that. Could someone please speak to this issue? Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh, Blond,i did not put these pics as reflecting them the idols of mine;no they aren't...i love and respect them;but my only idol is Allah...two complaints on my pics makes me to delete them...this is the best,i think...
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blond Senior Member Joined: 30 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 218	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 12:48pm
	*Originally posted by Suleyman* *Originally posted by blond* I have a question. I have heard some Muslims call other Muslims kafirun, even after reading Ayat 4:94 "O you who believe, when you go forth (to fight) in Allah’s way, make investigation, and say not to any one who offers you salutation, Thou art not a believer, seeking the good of this world’s life. But with Allah there are abundant gains. You too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; so make investigation. Surely Allah is ever Aware of what you do." I have also seen people who display the images of others being called idolotors. I don't agree with this. However, I have seen images of Prophets being sold even in Mecca, and I am against that. Could someone please speak to this issue? Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh, Blond,i did not put these pics as reflecting them the idols of mine;no they aren't...i love and respect them;but my only idol is Allah...two complaints on my pics makes me to delete them...this is the best,i think... No Sir! Please don't take offense to my questions. Please, don't feel inclined to take down the people who you respect on my account. I don't think you are wrong to honor the people who taught you. I was just wondering what you all think about the kind of standard I mentioned, that is all. I apologize to you for offending you. Edited by blond
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