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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:53am

Asslam-o-Aliakum

 

Here is the Salafi point of view - taken from a website from India.

 

The Deobandis - are one of the groups of Muslims. This group is connected to and named after the Madrasa of Deoband – Saharanpur – in India, With regard to basic tenets of belief (‘aqeedah), they follow the madhhab of Abu Mansoor al-Maatreedi. They follow the madhhab of Imaam Abu Haneefah with regard to fiqh. And They follow the Sufi tareeqahs of the Naqshbandiyyah, Chishtiyyah, Qaadiriyyah and Saharwardiyyah with regard to spiritual development as they say. 

 

The Brailvi - the belief and practices of this sect are founded upon superstition, folklore and many innovatory practices. It is a sad fact that the masses of ignorant Muslims do not know the real meaning of ‘Ibaadah (worship); they address their worship (unknowingly) to other than Allah, thereby committing a kind of shirk (associating partners with Allah), which would drive a person right out of Islam. They turn in awe and submission to the graves of Prophets and Righteous people, Invoking them, seeking their help, making vows and offering sacrifices to them. Having realised with great dismay that forms of greater shirk (polytheism) are rife throughout the Muslim World, we have made this page in the hope that it will guide those who have gone astray and bring them out of the darkness of shirk into the light of True Islam.

 

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2005 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Rehmat

........... They turn in awe and submission to the graves of Prophets and Righteous people, Invoking them, seeking their help, making vows and offering sacrifices to them. Having realised with great dismay that forms of greater shirk (polytheism) are rife throughout the Muslim World, we have made this page in the hope that it will guide those who have gone astray and bring them out of the darkness of shirk into the light of True Islam.

How would anyone hope to succeed when their leaders (for their political gains, I think) mimic the same ideas by visiting the graves of pious people and "asking" dua from these graves instead of offering "Fateha" for them. The latest case is shown on the TV news when president of Pakistan lately visited India and reportedly doing the same thing on the grave of a great pious man of his time. This kind of acts not only strengthen the false beliefs of these people but also helps them promoting it all higher levels.  May Allah help all of us to recognise true Islam. Amen.

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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 22 April 2005 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

How would anyone hope to succeed when their leaders (for their political gains, I think) mimic the same ideas by visiting the graves of pious people and "asking" dua from these graves instead of offering "Fateha" for them. The latest case is shown on the TV news when president of Pakistan lately visited India and reportedly doing the same thing on the grave of a great pious man of his time. This kind of acts not only strengthen the false beliefs of these people but also helps them promoting it all higher levels.  May Allah help all of us to recognise true Islam. Amen.

Hey don't expect every Muslim to act like a Wahabi - Against grave worshipping - but love America worshing!

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Quote ibraheem Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2005 at 11:21pm
WHO ARE THE REAL AHLUS SUNNAH WAL JAMAAH?

1. The Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah is the largest group of Muslims and the only group whose beliefs and teachings are truly in accordance with the Holy Quran and Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam).

2. The beliefs of this largest group are the same as the beliefs of the Sahaba or noble Companion’s (R.A) of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) and the Salf-us-Saliheen, our great pious predecessor’s (R.A).

3. In many Ahadith, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) strongly advised the Muslims to follow his Sunnah and to remain steadfast upon the path of his Sahaba, the Salf-us-Saliheen and the majority of Muslims to remain steadfast upon the way of the Ahle Sunnah.

4. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "I have left two things behind me for you (the Ummah). You will never go astray as long as you follow these two things. One of these two things is Allah's Holy Book (the Holy Quran) and the other is the Sunnah of his Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam).” (Muwatta Imam Malik)

5. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said that after he passes away, his Ummah should remain firmly steadfast upon his Sunnah and upon the way of his four righteous Muslim Caliphs. He advised us to follow this path alone and to be aware of innovations, which contradict the Holy Quran and his Sunnah. (Abu Dawud; Tirmidhi)

6. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" (Ibn Majah)

------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------

REMAINING WITH THE AHLUS SUNNAH WAL JAMAAH

1. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) advised us to remain firm with the largest group of Muslims and remain steadfast upon their way in beliefs and in actions.

2. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguided and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings, and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." (Tirmidhi)

3. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam". (Abu Dawood)

------------------------------------------------------------ -------

ABSTAINING FROM MISGUIDED GROUPS/SECTS

1. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) clearly warned his Ummah to completely abstain from joining in the gatherings of or listening to the words of any of the other misguided groups that will appear amongst the Muslims, whose beliefs will contradict the beliefs of the largest group of Muslims.

2. The beliefs of the largest group of Muslims will be in accordance with the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), the beliefs of the Sahaba and the Salf-us-Saliheen.

3. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "In the period prior to the Day of Judgement, false and deceitful groups will emerge. They will say things to you, which neither you nor your forefathers will have ever heard before. Stay away from these deceitful people and do not let them come near you! Do not be misguided by them and do not let them cause strife amongst you!" (Sahih Muslim)

------------------------------------------------------------ -------

DIVISIONS IN THE UMMAH

1. The concept of the Muslim nation separating into 73 sects, is taken from authentic Ahadith such as the following related by Imam Abu Hurairah (radi Allahu anhu): "The Messenger of Allah (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: 'The Jews separated into 71 sects, and the Christians into 72, and my nation will divide into 73 sects.'" (Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

2. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) said: "Seventy-two (of the 73 sects of the Muslim nation) will be in the fire, and only one will be in Paradise; it is the Jama'ah (i.e. Ahlus Sunnah Wa Jamaah) ." (Abu Dawood, Ad-Darimi, Ahmad)

3. There is another narration which states: "The Companions asked: 'Which sect will triumph (i.e. achieve salvation) ?' The Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) replied: 'The sect which adheres to that (set of beliefs and practices) which I and my Companions adhere to.'"

4. It should be clear from these Ahadith that the one sect, out of the 73, which is to gain salvation, is the Ahlus Sunnah Wa Jamaah, the only segment of the Muslim community which adheres to that which the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) and his Companions (radi Allahu anhum) adhered to.

------------------------------------------------------------ -------

OPINION OF GREAT CLASSICAL SCHOLARS AND AWLIA OF ISLAM 

1. Ghawth AlAadham, Imam Assayid AbdulQadir AlJilani AlHasani wa AlHussainy (radi allahu anhu) states: "There are 73 groups as foretold by Sayyiduna Rasoolallah (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) and (bear in mind that), the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah is the rightful group.” (Ghunyath ut Thaalibeen)

2. Sayyedina Imam Ghazzali (radi Allahu anhu) writes: "The Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah is the successful Firqah (group) and it is this Firqah which weighs or determines its thoughts and it is according to the scales of the Holy Quran". (Mujarribaat ul Imam Ghazali)

3. Sheikh Shah Wali'ullah Muhaddith Dehlawi (radi Allahu anhu) states: "As RasoolAllah (sallal laahu alaihi wa aalihi wasallam) has stated, follow this 'Sawad-al-Aazam', and when the four Madhabs are within the Sawad-al-Aazam then the following of any one of them, is followance of the Sawad-al-Aazam. Therefore, refuting any one of them is refuting the Sawad-al-Aazam". (Aqd ul Jayyad)

4. Imam Sufyan Al-Souri (radi Allahu anhu) states: "By Sawad-al-Aazam is meant those who are called the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah". (Al Mizaan ul Kubra)

5. Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlawi (radi Allahu anhu) states in his book "Fatawa Azeezy" (Vol. 2, pg. 4) that: "The various parts of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah in Aqaa'id such as the Ash'ariya, the Maaturadi, in Fiqh the Hanafi, the Shafi'i, the Hanbali, the Maliki and in Tassawwaf such as the Qadiriya, Rafai, Shadhili, Naqshabandi, Suhurwardi, this servant considers all of them to be the truth".

6. Imam Al-Rabbani, Mujaddid Alif Thaani (radi allahu anhu) states in the second chapter, page 67 of his "Maktubaat Shareef" that: "The way of salvation is followance of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah. May Almighty Allah Ta’ala bestows blessings upon the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah, in their speech, in their actions, laws, for this is the successful group. Besides this, all other groups have become victims of deception. Today, nobody realizes how much these misled groups will be punished, however, on the Day of Qiyamah this secret will become apparent. Even though at that time this knowledge will be of no benefit to the misled".

P.S. - Above is the unanimous position of the Four Islamic Jurisprudence Schools of Thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafie) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah, Aasharis and Maturidis absolutely united with consensus.
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 4:03am

Originally posted by ibraheem

P.S. - Above is the unanimous position of the Four Islamic Jurisprudence Schools of Thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafie) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah, Aasharis and Maturidis absolutely united with consensus.

Can this 'ignorant' put this question? Why the Hanbali (Wahabi, Salafi, or whatever) call Hanafis 'heretics'?

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Quote Ibn Hanbal Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 1:50pm
as salam 'ala man ittaba' al-Huda,

I don't intend to engage at length in discussion, but just as a comment
and advice, it is best for those who wish to gain beneficial knowledge to
avoid argumentation with those who only wish to create strife and
argument. From my own experience, the majority of Shi'a 'instigators'
often post argumentative pieces only for that purpose and there is really
no point in discussion. The debate between Shia-Sunni is one from
centuries before us and one that scholars of the past have engaged in for
many years. The claims of some who falsely pretend to promote 'Unity'
and then, of course, speak ill of Sunni Islam and all that it stands for
should simply be ignored. Engage in fruitful discussions, don't waste
time, an advice for for those of the Way of the Prophet and Orthodoxy.

A few notes to add: What is relevant are the positions and consensus of
the Majority of the Sunni scholars, not the positions of a stray group or
methodology [whether it be 'salafi' or otherwise]. This is what we hold on
to, from our own choice.

-The people of the Sunnah do not consider the Shi'a categorically as
disbelievers nor do we fall into such extremes. Disbelief is a very serious
matter, we cannot and do not randomnly accuse any Muslim of it. In fact,
it is not of our concern, the more Believers in heaven, the better and more
content the true Believer is. Misguidance and sin is different from
disbelief.

-The Hadith on the sects, as I understand from what the scholars state,
does not mean that the sects are forever condemned to Hell-fire. The
meaning is meant to indicate that they will be punished temporarily for
their wrongs and sin. May Allah save us from such a fate and Allah Most
High Knows best.

-According to the main Sunni view [once again, this means the consensus
and holdings of the Majority of the 'Ulama, not every stray
group. The scholars from the Four Schools are considered to
be representative of this, logic and basic understanding dictates that
the majority in number be consideredthe majority], there is
no Ja'afari Madh-hab. The Shi'a have in fact forged and falsely attributed
views and opinions to the great Imam and Righteous descendant of our
Beloved Prophet. We accept and know that Imam Ja'far [may Allah be
pleased with him] was a person of great knowledge and station, he
undoutedly taught many of the scholars of our Nation. Ahl ul-Sunnah do
not and cannot accept all of the claims and holdings of the Shia. All this
is the main Sunni view, whether it is accepted by the Shi'a or not is not of
concern.

-If a person cannot come to acknowledge our [Sunni] position, that is
their choice for we are simply adhering to what we know to be the truth.
The emphasis is on the fact that what matters to Ahl ul-Sunna is the
continuatity of inheritance from the Prophet and All of the
Companions, contained in the knowledge and transmission of the
majority. There is no confusion for us nor should we be interested in
arguing and picking apart each other in useless discussions.

For the benefit of anyone interested, the following contains the traditional
Sunni position on 'Ahl ul-Sunna' and Orthodoxy:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ahlsunna.htm

*Is there a Fifth Madh-Hab?
http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/h/151.html

On Fanaticism:
http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/h/124.html

We take heed of the statements of our Beloved Prophet [saw]:

". . . . you must follow my sunnah, and the sunnah of the Rightly-Guided
Caliphs." [Tirmidhi, Ahmad]

"...And I am a source of safety and security for my companions and when
I depart, that which has been promised will befall them, and my
Companions are a source of security for my Ummah..." [Muslim]

"I enjoin you to treat my Companions well, then the generation after
them, then the one following them. After this, falsehood will spread to
such an extent that a person will take an oath without being asked to, he
will give evidence without being asked to. In this time, be with the
majority, and beware of divisions. No man should be secluded with a
(unlawful) women, because the third of them is the devil. Whoever desires
Paradise should identify with the majority, and whoever's good deeds
pleases him, and his bad deeds displease him, his is a true believer."
[Tirmidhi]

And praise is for Allah, His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet
Muhammad, his Household, and Companions.

ibn Hanbal.


Edited by Ibn Hanbal
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 2:04pm

Was this an answer to my question - or a page from some sectarian website?

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Quote Ibn Hanbal Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2005 at 7:08pm
Rehmat,

What question are you even referring to, because I have yet to see the
relevant point you are making, forgive me but this is just what is obvious
to me. Your last question fails to reflect reality and betrays a lack of
knowledge on the questioners part: there is great difference between
those labeled 'Wahhabis' and the Sunni legal school of Imam Ahmad
[rahimahu Allah]. As for answering questions, my post was meant to
relate the majority Sunni view, in the least please do understand
this much. Wal Hamdu Lillah.

Can you show me how the posting itself was a page from some sectarian
website? Throwing baseless accusations is a mistake showing that one is
unsure of and shaken on one's own position.


Edited by Ibn Hanbal
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