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Rehmat
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Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 7:33am |
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Originally posted by Mustafaa
[QUOTE=Rehmat] ....Sufis are generally Sunnis, as far as I know. Are the Safawis really deemed a Sufi group? When they first appeared in the political stage, they believed in a non-mainstream Shiite branch. Later they adopted mainstream Twelver (Imaami) Shi'ism and spread it in Iran. The Safawis were originally Turks, and their early understanding of Shiism was affected by pre-Islamic Shamanistic beliefs of the Turks. As I have said just now, they later adopted mainstream Twelver Shiism. Sorry that's not true either - historically speaking. Shi’ism, which today appears closely mingled with the whole Iranian sense of national identity, was in its origin almost entirely a stranger to Iran. The origin of Shi’ism is said to be the Iranian response to an ‘Arab Islam’. Apart from the inappropriateness of these ethnic categories, there is simple fact that the earliest Shi’is were themselves, with few exceptions, Arabs, and Iran was for a long time an overwhelming Sunni country. Aside from a few centers, traditional centers such as Qum, Shi’ism was little represented in Iran. |
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Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You |
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Mustafaa
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Joined: 17 November 2001 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 986 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:03am |
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The sources do not explain what they mean by a 'Sufi branch'. The early beliefs of the Safawis may have had Sufi elements, but they were the heretic 'Kizilbash' Turks originally. (Kizil bash means 'red head' in Turkish.) However, the online sources that I have just checked make a distinction between the Safawi family and the Kizilbash Turkmens who supported this family. They seem to suggest that the Safawi family was not one of the heretic Kizilbashs... I do not know the exact fact anyway... EDIT: Addition: They also seem to suggest that there have been different groups that are named 'Kizilbash'. I'm a bit confused, but I can't delve into Safawi history now... Edited by Mustafaa |
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There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
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Angel
Senior Member
Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:04am |
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Originally posted by Rehmat
There are several Haddiths which mentions division of Ummah into 72 or so, sects. Yes to the hadiths but it doesn't mean that today there are 72 sects I think people have a misunderstanding that when something of a future issue is discussed like the above, 'there will be 72 sects' they think its all formed 'now' but then again I don't know how many there are today there could be 72 |
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[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Mustafaa
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Joined: 17 November 2001 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 986 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:10am |
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The number 72 is not to be taken literally. It only denotes a large number of sects. This is a device of the Classical Arabic language that is frequently encountered; they say a number but what they mean is only 'a large number'.
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There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
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Aliya
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Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:18am |
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i notice a new trend amongst some muslims nowadays to interpret qur'an on their own, rejecting tafsir, hadith, and scholars etc. So I personally think the number is much higher than 72 because of such deviation based on personal interpretation
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Aliya
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Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:24am |
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Also Variants of Shi'a IslamThe variants of Shi'a Islam differ regarding the rights of succession after the death of Prophet Muhammad, but they agree that the Imams were usurped from their rightful position. Sevener Shi': The Ismailis are the largest group among Sevener Shi'as. Fiver Shi'as or Zaidis: A group that is found mostly in Yemen that believes in the four Caliphs of Islam like the Sunnis, and thereafter Hasan and Hussayn and Ali ibn Husayn thereafter they hold to the Imamate of Zayd bin Ali bin Hussayn. Zaydis also reject the notion of divinely appointed Imams. Both major Shi'a sects believe that the last Imam (either the seventh or the twelfth) has been hidden alive by God. Beliefs vary as to what will happen when the last Imam, called the Mahdi ("the guided one"). It is generally believed that the last Imam will be accompanied by Jesus and will affirm Muhammad's message to mankind from God. |
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Rehmat
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Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 11:25am |
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Originally posted by Angel
...but then again I don't know how many there are today there could be 72 ![]() That's really interesting observation - I mean someone 'dosn't know' but still like to criticize others' opinion Yes Muslims have 72 sects; Christians have 73, while Jews have 71. Now please spare me to list all of them |
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Know your enemy!
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Angel
Senior Member
Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626 |
![]() Posted: 29 March 2005 at 10:03pm |
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Originally posted by Rehmat
Originally posted by Angel
...but then again I don't know how many there are today there could be 72 ![]() That's really interesting observation - I mean someone 'dosn't know' but still like to criticize others' opinion hehehe
Yes Muslims have 72 sects; Christians have 73, while Jews have 71. Now please spare me to list all of them
someone has done their homework And by the way, there's another hmmmm...72 sects, 72 virgins - a conspiracy going on |
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[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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