IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Hmmmmm!

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Rehmat

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Topic: Hmmmmm!
Posted: 27 March 2005 at 6:24pm

The topic heading says - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue between Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Salafi, etc.

Correct me if I am wrong. There are two major sects within Muslim Ummah - Sunni (85%) and Shi'ites (15%). Then Suunis are divided into 35 sub-sects, while Shi'ites count for 37 sects. Salafis, Wahabbis, Deobandi, Ahl-e-Qur'an, etc. all consider themselves sunnis - while a sufi can be a Sunni or Shi'ite.

So who is talking to whom?

No offence.

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Nausheen
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Posted: 27 March 2005 at 9:12pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

Originally posted by Rehmat

So who is talking to whom?

Anyone can talk to anyone, as long as a decorum is maintained on the forum.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Rehmat

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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 10:20am

No. That's not what I meant. I was merely keeping the facts straight - that except Shi'ites, every Muslim sectarian thinks that he/she is Sunni - including a Qadiani, or a Sufi

Personally, I never have stomach for any sectarian person or group. I participate on both Sunni and Shi'ite websites.

Wa Salaam

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Tomorrow it will be too late
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Aliya

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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 11:27am

and some shia subsects, like zaidis are closer to sunni than to mainstream shias (Shia Ithna Asheri), but for some reason they fall under the umbrella of shia rather than sunni

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Rehmat

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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 4:04pm

Originally posted by Aliya

and some shia subsects, like zaidis are closer to sunni than to mainstream shias (Shia Ithna Asheri), but for some reason they fall under the umbrella of shia rather than sunni

I am afraid that's not true. Shi'itism is divided into two main sects - 12-Imami and Zaidi. The 7-Imami (Ismaili) are part of Zaidi.

On the other hand, both sunni sects - Hannafi and Maliki take Shi'ite's sixth Imam - Imam Ja'afar Sadiq as their Sunni Imam.

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rami
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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 6:19pm

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

>>>Islamic Interfaith Dialogue<<<

It is called "Intrafaith" meaning of the same religion, I made the same mistake. The four madhabs are not a sect, neither are sufi's (traditional sufi's anyway).

Defanition of a sect in islam is a group who thinks they are correct while everyone out side there group is incorect ie munafiq,fasiq, kafir etc.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Rehmat

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Posted: 29 March 2005 at 4:29am

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

>>>Islamic Interfaith Dialogue<<<

It is called "Intrafaith" meaning of the same religion, I made the same mistake. The four madhabs are not a sect, neither are sufi's (traditional sufi's anyway).

Defanition of a sect in islam is a group who thinks they are correct while everyone out side there group is incorect ie munafiq,fasiq, kafir etc.

I disagree.

There are several Haddiths which mentions division of Ummah into 72 or so, sects.

The word "Madhab" has different meanings in different languages - for example in Persian and Urdu, it means 'religion'.

The 'four' are not 'madhabs', but "Schools of Fiqah (Jurisdiction)" - the fifth being "Fiqah-e-Ja'afariah".

As I posted earlier - Sufi could belong to Shi'ite or Sunni denomination of Islam. Historically, it were the Sufi Safvid dynasty, which converted Sunni majority into a minority in Iran, over a few centuries ago.

Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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Mustafaa

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Posted: 29 March 2005 at 7:10am

Originally posted by Rehmat

No. That's not what I meant. I was merely keeping the facts straight - that except Shi'ites, every Muslim sectarian thinks that he/she is Sunni - including a Qadiani, or a Sufi

Personally, I never have stomach for any sectarian person or group. I participate on both Sunni and Shi'ite websites.

Wa Salaam

Since you discriminate against neither the so-called Sunnis nor the so-called Shiites, I think you agree with the purpose of this part of the IslamiCity forum. It's to develop friendly and brotherly interaction among Muslims.

Sufis are generally Sunnis, as far as I know. Are the Safawis really deemed a Sufi group? When they first appeared in the political stage, they believed in a non-mainstream Shiite branch. Later they adopted mainstream Twelver (Imaami) Shi'ism and spread it in Iran. The Safawis were originally Turks, and their early understanding of Shiism was affected by pre-Islamic Shamanistic beliefs of the Turks. As I have said just now, they later adopted mainstream Twelver Shiism.

There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.

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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue

Author	Message
Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Topic: Hmmmmm! Posted: 27 March 2005 at 6:24pm
	The topic heading says - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue between Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Salafi, etc. Correct me if I am wrong. There are two major sects within Muslim Ummah - Sunni (85%) and Shi'ites (15%). Then Suunis are divided into 35 sub-sects, while Shi'ites count for 37 sects. Salafis, Wahabbis, Deobandi, Ahl-e-Qur'an, etc. all consider themselves sunnis - while a sufi can be a Sunni or Shi'ite. So who is talking to whom? No offence.
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 27 March 2005 at 9:12pm
	Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem, Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim, Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu, *Originally posted by Rehmat* So who is talking to whom? Anyone can talk to anyone, as long as a decorum is maintained on the forum. Maa salaama, Nausheen
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 10:20am
	No. That's not what I meant. I was merely keeping the facts straight - that except Shi'ites, every Muslim sectarian thinks that he/she is Sunni - including a Qadiani, or a Sufi Personally, I never have stomach for any sectarian person or group. I participate on both Sunni and Shi'ite websites. Wa Salaam
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
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Aliya Newbie Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 11:27am
	and some shia subsects, like zaidis are closer to sunni than to mainstream shias (Shia Ithna Asheri), but for some reason they fall under the umbrella of shia rather than sunni
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Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 4:04pm
	*Originally posted by Aliya* and some shia subsects, like zaidis are closer to sunni than to mainstream shias (Shia Ithna Asheri), but for some reason they fall under the umbrella of shia rather than sunni I am afraid that's not true. Shi'itism is divided into two main sects - 12-Imami and Zaidi. The 7-Imami (Ismaili) are part of Zaidi. On the other hand, both sunni sects - Hannafi and Maliki take Shi'ite's sixth Imam - Imam Ja'afar Sadiq as their Sunni Imam.
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
	IP Logged

rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 6:19pm
	Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem assalamu alaikum >>>Islamic Interfaith Dialogue<<< It is called "Intrafaith" meaning of the same religion, I made the same mistake. The four madhabs are not a sect, neither are sufi's (traditional sufi's anyway). Defanition of a sect in islam is a group who thinks they are correct while everyone out side there group is incorect ie munafiq,fasiq, kafir etc.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
	IP Logged

Rehmat Guest Group Joined: 28 February 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 474	Posted: 29 March 2005 at 4:29am
	*Originally posted by rami* Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem assalamu alaikum >>>Islamic Interfaith Dialogue<<< It is called "Intrafaith" meaning of the same religion, I made the same mistake. The four madhabs are not a sect, neither are sufi's (traditional sufi's anyway). Defanition of a sect in islam is a group who thinks they are correct while everyone out side there group is incorect ie munafiq,fasiq, kafir etc. I disagree. There are several Haddiths which mentions division of Ummah into 72 or so, sects. The word "Madhab" has different meanings in different languages - for example in Persian and Urdu, it means 'religion'. The 'four' are not 'madhabs', but "Schools of Fiqah (Jurisdiction)" - the fifth being "Fiqah-e-Ja'afariah". As I posted earlier - Sufi could belong to Shi'ite or Sunni denomination of Islam. Historically, it were the Sufi Safvid dynasty, which converted Sunni majority into a minority in Iran, over a few centuries ago.
	Know your enemy! No time to waste. Act now! Tomorrow it will be too late What You Don’t Know Can Kill You
	IP Logged

Mustafaa Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2001 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 986	Posted: 29 March 2005 at 7:10am
	*Originally posted by Rehmat* No. That's not what I meant. I was merely keeping the facts straight - that except Shi'ites, every Muslim sectarian thinks that he/she is Sunni - including a Qadiani, or a Sufi Personally, I never have stomach for any sectarian person or group. I participate on both Sunni and Shi'ite websites. Wa Salaam Since you discriminate against neither the so-called Sunnis nor the so-called Shiites, I think you agree with the purpose of this part of the IslamiCity forum. It's to develop friendly and brotherly interaction among Muslims. Sufis are generally Sunnis, as far as I know. Are the Safawis really deemed a Sufi group? When they first appeared in the political stage, they believed in a non-mainstream Shiite branch. Later they adopted mainstream Twelver (Imaami) Shi'ism and spread it in Iran. The Safawis were originally Turks, and their early understanding of Shiism was affected by pre-Islamic Shamanistic beliefs of the Turks. As I have said just now, they later adopted mainstream Twelver Shiism.
	There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
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