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Interfaith Dialogue
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2014 at 8:37am
Assalamalecum,browne's statement that if sum1 follows Islam's rules more than Allah is illogical,bcoz what is islam??islam means acquiring peace by submitting will to Allah,eg during month of Ramadan if a Muslim fasts and others are consuming food in front if him,then its a test for him whether he obey Allah,Allah says in ch 2 v 183 of Qur'an fast so that U become patient,or join them in eating.it is illogical to even think about islam with polyetheism bcoz Allah defines concept of God in ch 112 v 1-4 of Quran-Say Allahis one,he is eternal,he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.at tg12345 U say celebrating Christmas is a way of showing love to jesus(pbuh),if U really love Jesus(pbuh) then follow Qur'an n Sunnah bcoz that's what he says in gospel of John ch 16 v 12.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2014 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by TG12345


Yes, Christians believe that God reveals Himself as three persons to humanity. This does not mean that we believe there is more than one God. You see God differently from how we see Him, and you can say that, according to your beliefs, Christians are wrong in believing God is a Trinity.That is one thing. Stating that we are "poytheists" is false. Polytheists believe in more than one God. We do not.We are as much "polytheists" as you are "moon god worshipers".


Originally posted by Abu Loren


TG I understand where you are coming from, however it is an abomination to God that Christians worship the Messiah Jesus (Alayhi Salaam).

It would be an abomination to God if we did not worship Him. God reveals Himself to humanity as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus was worshiped while He was on earth, and He never told people who did so to not worship Him. He also said things about Himself that no one would ever say, unless they were claiming to be God.

Originally posted by Abu Loren


The concept of the Trinity is also an abomination to God, this ia all conjured up by Paul the charlatan.

The concept of the Trinity was introduced by Jesus, who said:


Matthew 28:16-20

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb]">[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Also, please don't call Paul a charlatan. If you disagree with what he taught, say so. I don't call Muhammad bad names.

Originally posted by Abu Loren


Let me try to explain in plain English. There is only God.

Let me respond to you in equally plain English. I know. Christians believe only God can be worshiped.

We see Him differently than Muslims do. You may say that we see God in the wrong way, according to your beliefs- but don't call us polytheists. We only believe in one God.

Originally posted by Abu Loren


By the way, I've just noticed your question about the Jews being monotheistic, the answer is yes they are.

Do you believe they worship God?

I ask this because earlier, you wrote:

Only Islam is the only religion that is truly monotheistic, your 3 in 1 or Trinity of whatever is polytheism.

Jews are not Muslims. So are they monotheistic or not? Do they or do they not worship God, according to what Islam teaches?


Edited by TG12345 - 12 February 2014 at 7:01pm
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2014 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by NABA

at tg12345 U say celebrating Christmas is a way of showing love to jesus(pbuh),if U really love Jesus(pbuh) then follow Qur'an n Sunnah bcoz that's what he says in gospel of John ch 16 v 12.

Wa alaikum salaam, NABA.

Let's read John 16:12 in context.

John 16:1-15

16 “I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me. But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes you may remember that I told them to you.

“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.


In John 16:1-15, Jesus is talking about "the Helper", "the Spirit of Truth".


Let's see what Jesus has to say about Him, and whether or not this description is applicable to Muhammad.


"I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8


Jesus told His disciples to not be sad, because after He goes away, He will send them the Spirit of Truth.

Did Muhammad come to the disciples? No, he was born some 5 centuries after Jesus left ascended to heaven.

Who sent Muhammad? Does the Quran teach it was Allah, or Jesus? Jesus said that HE will send the Helper. If "the Helper" is Muhammad, then you are saying that Allah must be Jesus, since Jesus said He will send him.


John 16:12 talks about the Holy Spirit, who Jesus sent. Like Jesus and the Father, the Holy Spirit is God. When God left the disciples in the form of Jesus, He came down in the form of the Holy Spirit.

For "the Helper" or "the Spirit of Truth" to be Muhammad, would imply that:

1) Muhammad came to Jesus' disciples. We both know that didn't happen.
2) Muhammad was sent by Jesus. We both know that isn't true either.

Jesus spoke of the coming of the Holy Spirit, not of Muhammad.

Also, notice that in John 16:15, Jesus said that all that the Father has is His. Do you believe that everything that Allah has belongs to Jesus.

Of course, I believe that Allah = the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. For you to accept John 16 as a prophecy about Muhammad, would mean you would have to accept that Jesus has everything that God has.


Edited by TG12345 - 12 February 2014 at 7:13pm
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2014 at 10:56pm
Assalamalecum, Allah says in Quran in ch 21 v 107 that he had sent prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a mercy to all the human mankind.u urself quoted that he will guide us, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did this thruout his life for eg prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said propogate even one verse to others if u know it correctly and we know Quran is truth, in ur post u showed us he will praise Jesus (pbuh),there is a hadith in which prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said believing in all prophets (pbut all) is one of the 6 pillars of faith in islam.there that verse clearly indicates prophet Muhammad (pbuh),Allah in Quran in ch 61 v 6 says that Jesus Christ (pbuh) said the coming of prophet Muhammad (pbuh).if u say God come down in the form of holy spirit it is illogical bcoz God doesn't need to, if we take ur logic y God sent so many apostles to earth y he can't cum dwn directly??? God sent apostles so that we can follow them and b successful both in world n hereafter, I ask u what is spirit?? Other name may b soul, we say even today what a beautiful soul he is or her, similarly Jesus Christ (pbuh) said In that way only.u believe in trinity I firmly believe Allah is one, he is eternal, he is neithet born nor give birth, there is nothing like him.

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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 13 February 2014 at 4:48am
Originally posted by NABA

Assalamalecum, Allah says in Quran in ch 21 v 107 that he had sent prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a mercy to all the human mankind.u urself quoted that he will guide us, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did this thruout his life for eg prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said propogate even one verse to others if u know it correctly and we know Quran is truth, in ur post u showed us he will praise Jesus (pbuh),there is a hadith in which prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said believing in all prophets (pbut all) is one of the 6 pillars of faith in islam.

Alaikum salaam,

Yes, Muhammad did praise Jesus and he did believe he was guiding people. So does the Holy Spirit.

However, some questions I need to ask you:

Was Muhammad sent to the disciples of Jesus, or was he born in the 6th century?

Was Muhammad sent by Jesus, or was he, as you believed, sent by God?

Originally posted by NABA


there that verse clearly indicates prophet Muhammad (pbuh),

So you believe Muhammad was sent to Jesus' disciples after He ascended to heaven?

You believe Muhammad was sent by Jesus?

Do you also believe that everything that the Father has, Jesus has?

Originally posted by NABA


Allah in Quran in ch 61 v 6 says that Jesus Christ (pbuh) said the coming of prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

If Jesus sent Muhammad and Muhammad was sent to Christ's disciples in the 1st century, you could have a point.


Originally posted by NABA


if u say God come down in the form of holy spirit it is illogical bcoz God doesn't need to,

No, but He chose to. God didn't need to create us, but He did anyways. He doesn't need to be merciful, but He is anyways.

Originally posted by NABA


 if we take ur logic y God sent so many apostles to earth y he can't cum dwn directly???

He did.

Originally posted by NABA


 God sent apostles so that we can follow them and b successful both in world n hereafter,

We aren't saved by following men, we are saved by following God.

Originally posted by NABA


I ask u what is spirit?? Other name may b soul, we say even today what a beautiful soul he is or her, similarly Jesus Christ (pbuh) said In that way only.

Jesus also said that God is Spirit. In John 16:12, Jesus was not talking about a man, He was talking about the Holy Spirit (God). No man came to Christ's disciples after He ascended to heaven, the Holy Spirit did. Read the Gospel of John in its entirety, and also read the Book of Acts.


Originally posted by NABA


u believe in trinity I firmly believe Allah is one, he is eternal, he is neithet born nor give birth, there is nothing like him.

The Trinity is one, eternal God. There is none like Him. He chose to beget Himself and came down to earth to be among us.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 14 February 2014 at 5:07am
Originally posted by TG12345



It would be an abomination to God if we did not worship Him. God reveals Himself to humanity as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus was worshiped while He was on earth, and He never told people who did so to not worship Him. He also said things about Himself that no one would ever say, unless they were claiming to be God.


It's more of an abomination HOW you worship him. He has told us how to worship him through the Prophets and Messengers that He sent. Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) never ever said he was God and to worship him. get real.
Originally posted by TG12345



Also, please don't call Paul a charlatan. If you disagree with what he taught, say so. I don't call Muhammad bad names.
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Let me try to explain in plain English. There is only God.


The difference is that one was really a charlatan who led billions of people into hell whilst the other is a true Prophet and Messenger of God. I'd let you figure out who is who.
Originally posted by TG12345


Let me respond to you in equally plain English. I know. Christians believe only God can be worshiped.We see Him differently than Muslims do. You may say that we see God in the wrong way, according to your beliefs- but don't call us polytheists. We only believe in one God.


This is what I'm talking about. In fact you are worshipping somebody other than God and that is not right.

[QUOTE=TG12345]

Jews are not Muslims. So are they monotheistic or not? Do they or do they not worship God, according to what Islam teaches?


OK I concede that the Jews are monotheistic and yes they worship One God however, they like the Christians are in error. What I meant was the Islam is the correct religion as it is the final revelation without any errors, additions or deletions by human hands.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 14 February 2014 at 8:59am
Assalamalecum, what do u mean by word disciples, disciples are nothing but followers,so we muslims all are followers of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as well as Jesus Christ (pbuh ), eg,Jesus Christ (pbuh) in bible in red colour lines told not to hv pork we Muslims don't! !!, so we muslims are more christians than u.i believe Allah had sent all apostles bcoz Allah mentioned in ch 21 v 107 that he had sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a mercy to all mankind.In fact Allah will sent Jesus Christ(pbuh) again on earth and it will b a sign of judgement day (ch 43 v 61).Allah will not choose to do ungodly things.Allah says Allah does what he intends to do (ch 85 v 16).u even doesn't follow the most important commandment of Jesus Christ (pbuh ) to worship only one Allah.u r constant on trinity concept.v started discussion on 6.8.13 tuesday from thamud post and it had been 192 days talking to u y8 u r on same point.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 14 February 2014 at 10:11am
Originally posted by NABA

started discussion on 6.8.13 tuesday from thamud post and it had been 192 days talking to u y8 u r on same point.


LOL I've learnt a long time ago to cut short the discussion when they don't learn anything and keep beating the same old drum. It's boring after a while this is because they don't have knowledge, understanding and guidance.
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