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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Topic: 91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark
    Posted: 31 October 2013 at 11:21am
91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark

50% of Luke is plagiarised from Mark.

Now why would they cheat and steal one anothers writings if they were eyewitnesses?
What happened to the Holy Ghost while all this was happening??? why did he not stop this from happening???

Some early gospels may have vanished because they were secret
gospels and very few copies were made. Others could have been lost due
to wars, conquests, upheavals, and persecutions. In addition, there have
been accusations that early church leaders intentionally destroyed some
books in order to cover up embarrassing facts about the origins of
Christianity. Some intentional destruction did take place, but exactly what
was lost can't be determined.
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semar
 
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Quote semar Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2013 at 12:48pm
 
iec786 read "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth" by Reza Aslan why Mathew and Luke have a lot of content from Mark. There are some verses that Luke and Mathew are the same (similar) that are not in Mark, thy got it from what Reza call it as "the source". This book very informative, he wrote it as scholar not as muslim so its away from "faith" based  contain.
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2013 at 10:01am
Thanks semar I will download it.
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2013 at 2:14am
And other imaginative stories to make Muslims look good(er). Another swoop from Onceuponatime.com
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2013 at 8:53am
A Great Introduction to Jesus the Man
By Jerry Davis on July 25, 2013
Format: Hardcover
A disclaimer: I'm an atheist, I majored in classics and I paid full price for this book at a brick & mortar. Let that say what it will about my judgment.

Now, if you seek confirmation that Jesus was/is the one, true Son of God, the savior of humanity, through which all can attain an everlasting life...that's not in this book. If you want a book by a Christian and for Christians, which will echo and confirm your Christian beliefs, then this is not the book for you. Don't buy it, don't waste your time and money. There are plenty of other books out there that are just what you're searching for. I can't give you any recommendations (my apologies) but I'm sure a quick search on google or a trip to your local Christian book seller will get you started. Good luck, have a nice day.

On the other hand, if you have an open mind and an interest in history, you probably will enjoy this book. Christian, Atheist or whatever, there is no denying the impact Jesus has had on history. There is so much we will never know - can never know - about the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth - not the Jesus you learn about at Sunday school or vacation bible study. This book is about the Nazarean, whom every Christian will tell you walked as a man among men. Reza Aslan investigates this man and the world that he was born into, his short life and his agonizing death, and tries to fill in the blanks where he can with conjecture based on scholarship.



Edited by iec786 - 18 November 2013 at 8:54am
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2013 at 7:01am
Hi iec,

Quote from Post 1:
91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark
50% of Luke is plagiarised from Mark.
Now why would they cheat and steal one anothers writings if they were eyewitnesses?
What happened to the Holy Ghost while all this was happening??? why did he not stop this from happening???

Response: --- So here is a chance for you to understand that the same Message was written to the different people groups, the Jews, the Romans and the Greeks.

You need to be careful how you speak of the Holy Spirit, --- read Luke 12:10.
It was the Holy Spirit that inspired the writers, “Holy men of God spoke as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.”

There is evidence that Matthew, as a businessman was the ‘recorder’ or ‘secretary,’ for Jesus and the disciples. --- That he wrote even while Jesus was speaking to the crowds, --- and they travelled together for the three years of training, so Matthew could verify anything with Jesus, to have it right. --- Their first language was Aramaic, and there is evidence that Matthew first wrote, “The Sayings of Jesus,” in Aramaic, --- which was no doubt “The Sayings” in Matthew 5, 6, and 7, which are called ,”The Sermon on the Mount.” --- This would have been copied and distributed quickly as anything written was valuable to the people.

Then he wrote a Gospel in Aramaic (a dialect of Hebrew), which is verified different times.
---There is only one Gospel Message so it would have been copied and distributed quickly, and each of the Apostles would have a copy, or access to it. --- This would be the written Gospel in Aramaic that the Apostles would have when they went out into the world after the Day of Pentecost,(Acts 2), in the years, 35-50 --- (as the quote says about the Apostle Bartholemew), and it may have been translated into local languages in other countries, as Scriptures often were.

Eventually, about 58-60 AD, because the Language of Commerce was Greek, the three Gospels were written. --- While Mark wrote his account in Rome, with input from Peter, a few years before Matthew and Luke, the critics get excited about Mark being the first.
--- But Matthew was placed first because he was the principle writer, and his first Gospel was writer in Aramaic. So they would each have access to the same Gospel material to use as a format for their Gospel account in Greek.
--- Mark has 16 chapters and Matthew has 28, almost twice as many. --- The difference is that Matthew wrote to the Jews, so emphasized the OT laws and prophecies, --- and their fulfillment in the NT.
--- They said he got the extra material ‘from what Reza calls it as "the source". --- Others said from the mysterious “Q” which meant “Source.” --- So the “Source” was undoubtedly the original Gospel in Aramaic. --- There have been no copies or fragments found, but once it was incorporated into the Greek Gospels, it was no longer needed.

Quote: All of our surviving versions are in Greek.But the early Fathers of the Church (Irenaeus, Jerome, Eusebius) tell us that Matthew first wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Saint Jerome tells us that a Hebrew version of Matthew was still extant in his day at the library in Caesarea or Alexandria. Eusebius tells us that Pantaenus the missionary went to India, and was told by the locals that Bartholomew the Apostle had brought the Gospel of Matthew, written in Hebrew, to India in the first century.

--- If you notice, the Gospels are written in the ‘third person’ because the focus was on Jesus, the Christ, the Savior and Messiah, and a Sign for all peoples, as it says in Surah 21:
91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

Luke, who was a medical doctor and a Greek historian, wrote his Gospel in Greek for his own people.
He identified himself in his opening, when he addressed it to the Greek, Theophilus. --- Luke later travelled with Paul and wrote another intro in the opening of the Book of Acts. --- It was after that missionary journey that they went together to Rome, where Luke finalized them both. --- As a historian, Luke wrote about the birth of Jesus which info he could only have gotten from Joseph and Mary.

John wrote a General Gospel years later, and having access to the others, did not follow the same format, but emphasized the work of the Holy Spirit.
He repeated the important events, Jesus’ Baptism, His miracles, His death, burial, and Resurrection. --- So there are 4 accounts witnessing these events.
--- The OT says, “By the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.”

--- About 365 AD the NT was finalized and then translated into Latin and other languages, and in 625 AD Gabriel confirmed it as true, and there have been no changes, just translations and updates since then.

Placid
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2013 at 7:30pm
Hi Placid,

91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark

50% of Luke is plagiarised from Mark.

Now why would they cheat and steal one anothers writings if they were eyewitnesses?
What happened to the Holy Ghost while all this was happening??? why did he not stop this from happening???

This was my question?

I was reading the NIV study Bible and in the beginning of each chapter they give an account of the author of the book in question,and this is where i found that 91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark.So my next question is where was the Holy spirit while this was happening could he not have stopped Matthew from cribbing Marks work???

Then as you read further it says in the book of Matthew their are remnants of several writers??huh why would several writers put their fingers in Matthews book ???

My next question is while all this was happening where was the Holy ghost while this was happening?? should he not have smite them and correct the book even now????

I never spoke bad of Ny Holy Ghost.Then you talk of translation/againe where is the Holy Ghost to correct this translation? or is he just going to leave this translation with all the mistakes and interpolations and let the Christians wonder in the wilderness as he left the Jews for 40 years????lots of questions no answers.

I think the next step is to find a church father let him explain why the limbo,and why are the people being led astray.

According to my reference bible most of the authors of the Bible are anonymous books it says Genesis attributed to Moses but some 4 different authors writing in the book are evident.So i will leve you to explain who gives anyone the permission to put their fingers willy nilly into someone elses book.

I would sue them if they touch my work.    
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2013 at 7:11am
Hi iec,

Quote: This was my question?

I was reading the NIV study Bible and in the beginning of each chapter they give an account of the author of the book in question,and this is where i found that 91% of matthews is plagiarized from mark.So my next question is where was the Holy spirit while this was happening could he not have stopped Matthew from cribbing Marks work???

Response: --- The simple answer is in your statement, --- “I was reading the NIV Study Bible and in the beginning of each chapter (Book) they give an account.”

--- “Where was the Holy Spirit?” --- They weren’t writing by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. --- The Holy Spirit wasn’t with them.
--- What you read is not the Scriptures that they translated, but the comments of the scholars and critics who produced this ‘International’ version.
It is a ‘Scholarly’ version, --- it is not a Spiritually guided version.
--- What you read in the comments is not the Scripture itself, but the words of the final committee, who present a more ‘critical’ focus on the authors, --- rather than the Scripture, --- given originally by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

If you look at the Preface, --- It will likely say the same in the Study Bible as it does in my copy.
Quote: The New International version is a completely new translation of the Holy Bible made by over a hundred scholars.
Wikipedia “The New International Version project was started after a meeting in 1965 at Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois, of the Christian Reformed Church, National Association of Evangelicals, and a "group of international scholars.” --- End of quote.
From the Preface: “This group, though not made up of official Church representatives, was trans-denominational.” --- “The responsibility was given to a self-governing body of fifteen, the Committee on Bible Translation, composed for the most part of Biblical scholars from colleges, universities and seminaries.” --- These institutions have secular professors and teachers.
--- It goes on to mention representatives from various Countries and denominations to give it international flavor. --- And they have a mixture of:
1. The Accurate Scriptures, which are the Books themselves, --- And:
2. Their secular comments in the introductions and, in some cases, footnotes.

However, the translation is perhaps accurate to Scripture from a scholastic point of view. Quote: “All this involved many thousands of hours of research and discussion regarding the meaning of the texts and the precise way of putting them into English.”
--- The Scholars seemingly did not know the history of the Gospel of Matthew in Aramaic, a Hebrew dialect, --- and that it was no doubt the format for the three Synoptic Gospels, --- so their comments have misled readers.
--- If you read the NIV with no comments you would be, not too far astray, but, since it is not from Spiritual origin, it is not a good translation to rely on. It is better to put it on a shelf and get an authorized version as your study Bible.
--- The King James Bible was translated from the Greek Manuscripts in early 1600 and is still widely used. --- The New King James updates the language from the Old English, and I believe is the best version today.

--- It is very simple, it doesn’t matter what version you read, if you have been influenced away, by secular scholars, from believing that God inspired the writers, through His Holy Spirit, --- you will always be trying to make a case against God, as a critic.

--- It is God’s word, and Gabriel ‘confirmed’ the former Scriptures as true in Surah 3:
2 God! There is no god but He, - the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus).

Placid
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