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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2013 at 12:23pm
God ALMIGHTY has no role to play in this drama.
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2013 at 12:11pm
Hi iec,

Sorry to be slow in getting around to this but this is quite easily understood:
Quote: Luke 3:23-38
King James Version (KJV)
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph.
In this statement Jesus is the Son of Joseph.So Joseph is his father.

Response: --- What you missed was the first Genealogy in Matthew, and then the full verse in Luke 3:23 KJV “Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,

The Genealogy of Joseph is in Matthew 1:
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:
2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.
David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife[a] of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,[c] and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob.
16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

--- Notice in verse 6, “David the King begat Solomon,” so Joseph, the husband of Mary was a descendant of King David through Solomon.

Both Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to be registered for the census, since they were both of the House of David. --- While they were there Jesus was born, and He was registered as the son of Joseph, because the lineage went through the Father.

--- So we see the lineage of Mary from Kind David through another son Nathan, verse 31, in Luke 3:
23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d] the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

--- So the, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.” from Matthew, --- and the, “As was supposed” in verse 23, --- gives the understanding.
Joseph was again mentioned in Luke, but he was the Foster Father, and son (in law) to Mary’s father, Heli.

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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2013 at 9:08pm
Hi placid,
forgot to reply.,due to old age. [IMG]smileys/smiley36.gif" align="middle" />

you mentioned the genealogy of Joseph in    The Genealogy of Joseph is in Matthew 1: and the genealogy of Mary,the genealogy of Joseph.

I am talking of the genealogy of Jesus who had no genealogy.The Bible gave Jesus 66 grandfathers and great grandfathers to a man who had no genealogy.

The Bible does not say that the one genealogy is from Joseph and one is from Mary does it please show us where in the Bible does it show this is the genealogy of Mary????

From the 66 grandfathers and great grandfathers of Jesus the Bible Pharez and Zerah of Tamar who were the children of incest are the the great grand fathers of Jesus.Which means Jesus was born from incest,and you know if any child is born out of wedlock for ever they go to Hell.
Deuteronomy 23:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 A b astard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
Please explain.


Edited by iec786 - 13 November 2013 at 9:21pm
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 20 November 2013 at 4:55am
Hi iec,

I am sure you have seen all of the verses that tell you that Jesus was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit.

--- But before you slander Jesus any more, perhaps you can trace the Genealogy of Mary through her Father as given in Surah 3:
35 Behold! The wife of 'Imran said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things."
36 When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"’

--- It gives the name of Mary’s Father, ‘Imran, again in Surah 66:
12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
--- (We (God) breathed into her body something of Our Spirit.)
It says the same in Surah 21:
91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We (God) breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

And notice that it says Jesus was a SIGN FOR ALL PEOPLES, --- As it is written in Surah 3:
45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;
46 "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

--- So, you see, it was God who was the Father of Jesus, --- The Word with a capital W speaks of the creative power of God, “Be” and he is, V 45.
So Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit of God. --- And the Signs followed.
48 "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49 "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a ‘Sign’ from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a ‘Sign’ for you if ye did believe;
50 "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a ‘Sign’ from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
51 "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
--- (It says Jesus was the Sign three times, plus every miracle was a Sign. --- Since it says he was a SIGN FOR ALL PEOPLES, --- does that include you?)

And as well as being a Sign to “A Way that is straight,” --- it says also:
55 Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection:
55 Shakir: And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me.
55 Sher Ali: Remember the time when ALLAH said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection;
--- (I understand that the Arabic words referred to physical death. --- This is why we can feel confident in believing these Signs from God.)

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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 21 November 2013 at 9:23am
Hi Placid,

But before you slander Jesus any more,
This is not true please do not say that i have slandered any Prophet of God Almighty.Whatever i post is from the Bible.

Could you please point out any slander that you accuse me of????? this is serious.
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2013 at 4:32am

Quote: From the 66 grandfathers and great grandfathers of Jesus the Bible Pharez and Zerah of Tamar who were the children of incest are the the great grand fathers of Jesus.Which means Jesus was born from incest,and you know if any child is born out of wedlock for ever they go to Hell.

Response: --- Mary was the daughter of ‘Imran and his wife, as it says in Surah 66:
12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit;
Mary was the child of two parents, --- any hint of incest in the case of Jesus is slander, is it not?
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2013 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by Placid


Quote: From the 66 grandfathers and great grandfathers of Jesus the Bible Pharez and Zerah of Tamar who were the children of incest are the the great grand fathers of Jesus.Which means Jesus was born from incest,and you know if any child is born out of wedlock for ever they go to Hell.

Response: --- Mary was the daughter of ‘Imran and his wife, as it says in Surah 66:
12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit;
Mary was the child of two parents, --- any hint of incest in the case of Jesus is slander, is it not?




Placid look at my quote it comes from your Bible.

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah

1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerahah, whose mother was Tamar


Bible study resource with story and themes. Tamar is childless. Her husband masturbates, so she seduces her father-in-law and is accused of promiscuity.From this incest relationship to B astard children were born these children of incest are in the genealogy of Jesus.

Genesis 38 (New International Version)


Genesis 38
New International Version (NIV)
Judah and Tamar

38 At that time, Judah left his brothers and went down to stay with a man of Adullam named Hirah. 2 There Judah met the daughter of a Canaanite man named Shua. He married her and made love to her; 3 she became pregnant and gave birth to a son, who was named Er. 4 She conceived again and gave birth to a son and named him Onan. 5 She gave birth to still another son and named him Shelah. It was at Kezib that she gave birth to him.

6 Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar. 7 But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death.

8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

11 Judah then said to his daughter-in-law Tamar, “Live as a widow in your father’s household until my son Shelah grows up.” For he thought, “He may die too, just like his brothers.” So Tamar went to live in her father’s household.

12 After a long time Judah’s wife, the daughter of Shua, died. When Judah had recovered from his grief, he went up to Timnah, to the men who were shearing his sheep, and his friend Hirah the Adullamite went with him.

13 When Tamar was told, “Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep,” 14 she took off her widow’s clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.

15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let me sleep with you.”

“And what will you give me to sleep with you?” she asked.

17 “I’ll send you a young goat from my flock,” he said.

“Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?” she asked.

18 He said, “What pledge should I give you?”

“Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand,” she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. 19 After she left, she took off her veil and put on her widow’s clothes again.

20 Meanwhile Judah sent the young goat by his friend the Adullamite in order to get his pledge back from the woman, but he did not find her. 21 He asked the men who lived there, “Where is the shrine prostitute who was beside the road at Enaim?”

“There hasn’t been any shrine prostitute here,” they said.

22 So he went back to Judah and said, “I didn’t find her. Besides, the men who lived there said, ‘There hasn’t been any shrine prostitute here.’”

23 Then Judah said, “Let her keep what she has, or we will become a laughingstock. After all, I did send her this young goat, but you didn’t find her.”

24 About three months later Judah was told, “Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant.”

Judah said, “Bring her out and have her burned to death!”

25 As she was being brought out, she sent a message to her father-in-law. “I am pregnant by the man who owns these,” she said. And she added, “See if you recognize whose seal and cord and staff these are.”

26 Judah recognized them and said, “She is more righteous than I, since I wouldn’t give her to my son Shelah.” And he did not sleep with her again.

27 When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. 28 As she was giving birth, one of them put out his hand; so the midwife took a scarlet thread and tied it on his wrist and said, “This one came out first.” 29 But when he drew back his hand, his brother came out, and she said, “So this is how you have broken out!” And he was named Perez.[a] 30 Then his brother, who had the scarlet thread on his wrist, came out. And he was named Zerah.

According to your Bible that you hold in your hand it says:

(a) "The B ASTARD shall not enter the congregation of the Lord;
even to his tenth generation . . ." DEUTRONOMY 23:2

Everything that is posted here is not the words of Ismail please i am only quoting your Bible.

Ismail






Edited by iec786 - 22 November 2013 at 8:08pm
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2013 at 3:53am
Hi iec,

As I said above:
Mary was the daughter of ‘Imran and his wife as it says in Surah 66:
12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit;
Mary was the child of two parents,
Have you checked the Genealogy of Mary’s Father, ‘Imran?

Rather than quoting a lot of OT Scriptures to show the sins of people who needed to repent, --- why not go back a little further?

If you consider that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters, and the only way to produce more children was for brothers and sisters to produce them, so I guess you could blame God for starting the human race from incest.
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