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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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liberty
 
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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 11:10pm

I did not join in the chorus of getting rid of Saddam.

What I said was: Ask an Iraqi if he/she would rather continue with the democracy they have now or go back to Sadam's rule.  Which do you think he/she would choose?

I have never supported nor will ever support having gone into Iraq.

 

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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 2:39am
Originally posted by liberty

I did not join in the chorus of getting rid of Saddam.

What I said was: Ask an Iraqi if he/she would rather continue with the democracy they have now or go back to Sadam's rule.  Which do you think he/she would choose?

I have never supported nor will ever support having gone into Iraq.

 

Well said.   Ukers will remember the massive divide over going to Iraq so while I continue to disagree with the war, I refuse to turn my back on my fellow country men who are posted out there because I'm sure as hell they dont want to be there either.



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DavidC
 
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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 7:17am
Bin Laden is the primary cause of the mess in Mesopotamia. The US
avoided retaliatory attacks on the USS Cole and the embassies in Africa,
both of which bin Laden took "credit" for.

The attack on Afghanistan after 9/11 was the last straw. Removing
Saddam was underplanned and oversold, but I don't think anyone misses
Saddam.

The problem TODAY is the civil war. The US is not going to pass out
reconstruction money to al-Qaeda, and a US inspired government is
temporary at best. Iraq needs to get these so-called insurgents out of
there, put up withh the fact that the US is going to have an influence
during reconstruction, and develop a political system that will be able to
take over in five years.

If everybody would just stop with the hindsight and idiot-logical
posturing maybe the problem could just get fixed. We need pragmatism
- good people are being killed and thieves on both sides are getting rich.

Iraq needs major, peaceful protest on the ground in Baghdad. If the
Saudis can organize the Hajj they can organize this too.
David C.
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liberty
 
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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 8:15am

I sincerely hope that the US is out of there completely with in 5 years or sooner.  However, how long will it take for the muslims in the middle east to accept a democratically elected government in Iraq that does not have it's laws determine according to Koran?

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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 3:24pm

A democratically elected government should be accepted by everyone isn't it Liberty? But when the super power who "champions" for democracy in the Middle East, does not want to accept the democratic choice of the people of Palestine, do you think the dicatorial regimes of many decades will embrace whatever your country imposes upon them? The world is truly tired of big brother. You may not understand this especially because even the press there seems to be very much in control of the government. The documentaries I have seen about the US here re-confirm my repulsion of that country. And it is hard to come across anyone in other countries who would speak one good thing about your government.

And what is wrong with having its laws determined in accordance with the Qur'an? There is no crime, no prostitution, no nudity on the streets of Saudi Arabia and that is what Muslims who like modesty and decency like to see.

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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 6:27pm

And what is wrong with having its laws determined in accordance with the Qur'an?

There is a lot wrong with it for people who are not Muslims!  Or do you plan on forcing everyone one to convert or just accept Muslim law as the final word.  Not everyone, and I would think this is true even in the middle east, wants to live according to the Koran.  Not all believe in this text, just as in the West not all believe in the Bible.

As it is, it difficult enough for me to live in the USA with these fundamentalist Christians trying to push their pro-Christian agenda. No religious state for me, thank you.

We could also eliminate all sin by making them punishable by death.  Then we could live in a place where there is no crime, and no prostitution.  Would you like to live under this rule of law?

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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 6:54pm

Liberty, first of all in Islam there is no forced conversion. One conveys the message and that is it. It is upto the individual to take it or leave it. Where Shariah Law is concerned  - not everything will be applicable to non_muslims. Only social laws such as dress code, behaviour, punishments for certain crimes such as theft etc are those that would apply. I am not an expert at Shariah law, but I am aware that in the past where Shariah law was prevalent, non-Muslims received protection from the state and were happy. 

Not all sins are punishable by death. I would certainly like to live in a place where there is no crime and no prostitution, would'nt you? We wouldn't have to worry about our children walking home from school alone, teenagers returning home late and school kids going on shooting rampages etc. Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. To rule out one to the exclusion of the prevalent is a folly, especially knowing well the high crime rate and deterioration of morality that is today. 

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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 11:20pm

And what is wrong with having its laws determined in
accordance with the Qur'an?



If your judges are true prophets, maybe nothing.

As I recall, the companions of the prophet began disputing the law soon
after the Prophet's death and it resulted in many evil events. These were
good, religious people but politics was their downfall.

Christianity had it's Holy Roman Empire for centuries. The religion was
poisoned by politics and Satan.

Using religion as law has always resulted in the corruption of religion. It
has never resulted in a sanctified society.

Law is the very definition of compulsion. No compulsion in religion is a
most excellent concept.

I ask you: what kind of fool thinks he can legislate Satan out of existence?
And you want HIM as your judge?
David C.
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