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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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liberty
 
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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 10:59am

I am new to the discussion board and must tell you that I also see ridicule.  But most of it is done by pro-islam members against anyone with a differing opinion.

My purpose here is not to offend anyone but ask questions to gain a better understanding of Islam and share with you one westerners opinions.

My main purpose is to find out if there is any true compromise between our value of free speech and Islam.  Or does Islam demand punishment or death for saying, writing, drawing, certain things?  In this case there is no middle ground and there is no hope of Islam and western values coexisting.

Am I the only one concerned over the fate of Europe with its growing Muslim population?  Will it soon become the terrorists backyard as Israel is?  And I mean terrorists from both sides of the conflict, Muslims and Europeans!  The IRA was quite a successful terrorist organization.  Will we soon just be killing each other in small blasts until someone finally has had enough and decides to use a nuclear weapon?

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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 11:41am
Originally posted by liberty

Am I the only one concerned over the fate of Europe with its growing Muslim population?  Will it soon become the terrorists backyard as Israel is?  And I mean terrorists from both sides of the conflict, Muslims and Europeans!  The IRA was quite a successful terrorist organization.  Will we soon just be killing each other in small blasts until someone finally has had enough and decides to use a nuclear weapon?

No you are not.  It is a much discussed topic of conversation for us British.  The fact that we are seeing our very own culture erode before our eyes at an alarming rate resulting in fear.  Many veiw that ultimately we will turn into another Iraq.  We are seeing the beginnings already with the protests, flag burning and "westerners you will die" banners.  Can anyone tell my why every muslim country is in chaos?

Personally I am trying to get my head around the whole thing, and it isnt easy.

Please don't compare the IRA to muslim terrorists it is a completely different issue as the essence of thier attacks was over land which spiralled out of control.  Now pretty much disbanded since the 9/11 attacks.  Did you know they use to send a warning before they attacked?  While unjustifiable its still completely different planting a bomb to walking onto a crowded train with a knapsack.

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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 12:16pm

Can anyone tell my why every muslim country is in chaos?

Interesting question.  But will there be any answer that does not blame the West?

I am surely not qualified to answer or comment since I do not live in a Muslim nation.  I can only comment intelligently about the politics in the USA.

It will be quite interesting hearing a response to this question.

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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 1:29pm
IMHO, the reason is that there not only is no caliphate, but that the
concept of an ummah has been proven to be a complete fiction.

We have a deadly Muslim civil war in Iraq, and the best the "ummah" can
do is manufacture protests about cartoons. In fact, I cannot think of one
positive pro islamic action taken recently. The "ummah" only exists to
express anger or blame, something the Prophet expressly warned
against.

Sharia is enforced against the weak and powerless, but the rich and
politically popular are politely ignored.

I'd like to see every Muslim who is physically able to make a pilgrimmage
to Baghdad. Fill the streets with millions of Muslims in prayer. The US
and warring Sunni and Shiite factions would be completely flummoxed. It
would result in an immediate cessation of hostilities and an undeniable
Islamic victory for a united ummah.

But I don't think it will happen. We will have more cartoon protests,
increasing the income and popularity of the blaspheming cartoonists,
and Muslim deaths in Iraq will increase.
David C.
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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 1:41pm
I wasnt just refering to Iraq.
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 10:19pm

DavidC, Brilliant response. I completely agree.

Ketchup & Liberty, most Muslims do not accept the actions of those Muslims who are involved in violent protest. It is wrong. The cartoons were expression of a satanic quality (inciting hatred & anger) and the response is also a satanic quality (blind rage knowing no boundaries).

The crux of the problem lies in the attitude of the United States and its supporters. The illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel with the blatant support of the US  and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan by the US & its supporting countries - this is at the heart of the hurt and anger which most Muslims feel for their brethren. The response of the weak and the victims is really bad. But in democracies people have the power to bring down governments which are the cause of terrorism. But we are passive observers giving our "wise" comments and hiding in the comfort of our homes. Unless we (every individual of a western democracy) take responsibility and do as some of us did prior to the Iraq war (rallies of protest against the invasion) we are equally responsible for the terrorism we see and sometimes become victims of.

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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 10:30pm

Maryga, are you suggesting that the US should not have gone after Bin Laden is Afghanistan although the Taliban government was protecting the men responsible for 9/11?

Once again I must state that I and many Americans did not support going into Iraq since they had no connection with Bin Laden.

However, I would suspect that if you ask most Iraqis today if they could choose between Sadam and a democratic government most would NOT choose Sadam.

The US should get out of Iraq ASAP!

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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 10:50pm

However, I would suspect that if you ask most Iraqis today if they could choose between Sadam and a democratic government most would NOT choose Sadam.

Apologies! Apologies! That is why I say that everyone in a democracy is responsible for the ghost of terrorism which strikes us unawares! In your second sentence you first say you did not support the US going into Iraq and in the very next breath you join in the chorus of getting rid of Saddam!

The US did not go into Iraq to get rid of Saddam! They went on a false pretext of WMDs and the main intention was to open up the Muslim world for their evangelical crusade and also benefit from the Oil! But it all went horribly wrong with thousands of Iraqis dead!

Same with hunting the ghost of Bin Laden! Destruction, destruction, nothing but destruction & chaos! What have they achieved? More terrorists! Isn't it? So you still apologise and defend your government? Then you and I, if I were also to believe that the US was justified in its acts would become responsible for the conditions we face today.

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