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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2005 at 6:53am

Bismillah,

Has a study been done to see where most of the Muslims are in the range of liberal to extreme?  That would be a very interesting thing to read.

There are many different sects and types of Muslims all over the world.  We have to try really hard in this world to find out the facts, the truths, that this world holds.  Keep looking, but look longer, much longer.  Be scientific about your search; keep records.  A little story here and there can't lead you to a scientific conclusion.

I have been to many of those parties.  The women do laugh and have fun many times.  So you just didn't stay long enough to see that.  Yes, many of the women are the primary cooks of the family.  What is your problem with that?  But many of the cookouts the men cook the meat and work the entire cookout also.  I guess you didn't see one like that yet.

We have parties inside where the women dance, laugh, sing and talk.  It's really fun.  Women can and do have fun as Muslim women.  I like being in parties with women and no men because I can be myself, like a kid I guess, and not worry about some guy's impression of me.  I never had much fun at the ones I had to go to as a young girl.  My church had dances that we were encouraged to attend.  They were so uncomfortable!  But that's me.  Well, come to think of it, most of the girls and guys just sat around staring at the floor.  Hmm.

And guess what?  According to Websters I'm probably a fundamentalist.  I'm very opinionated, you might have noticed.  Also, the women in my husband's family, whom are Phalasteeni, are opionated, outspoken and strong women.  A lot of them take care of the kids at home and cook while their husbands work outside the home.

There have to be four witnesses to leud behavior.  These fools who implement the Quraanic laws differently are causing the trouble, not the Quraan itself.

Slavery was accepted and Allah, SWT, was guiding the people in different ways to leave the evil of slavery behind.  The Muslims did it faster and more efficiently than say, Tom Jeffereson and George Washington, who had slaves when they died and did not properly provide for them to be freed and stay with their families and have homes.  Slavery is not acceptable now, and people who do this will be punished by God when they die, if not in this world also.

Rami, I guess I'm the revert of a civil servant then because it was his translation and commentary that caused me to accept Islam years ago. 

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2005 at 6:18pm

Tgrant wrote: This is were you lose me.  Why do religions have such a need to cast human being into certain roles based on their genitilia?  Why not use hair color?   Or better yet skin color.  This is how America was able to build the strongest economy in the world.  By casting blacks as sub-human.  Yeah, that worked out great.

 

Im sorry Tgrant, I dont blame you for your understanding of the issue. It is the environment in which you were brought up that inhibits your understanding of something so basic as the differences between a man and a woman. If you believe that the order in which life exists in most parts of the western worlds (which is also permeating to the third world) is perfect then Id say please continue to enjoy your life in which you have found bliss. But I dont believe this is so and many are seeking to look out for that perfect order and fortunately, are finding it the truth in Islam.

 

I think others here have responded to you and I just wish to add that when God has created man and woman differently and when that difference has been based on the word that you use, He has also defined the roles and functions of each of them. A man cannot give birth to a child nor can he wean a child. The physical differences have been attributed to fulfil the roles assigned. No role is in any way inferior or superior and one cannot exist without the other. The lack of this basic understanding has led to the chaos that exists today. Women are taking up the roles of men and we have broken families, single parents and children who dont know who their real fathers are etc. If you think that is the perfect world God help!

 

America may be the strongest economy today but are all Americans happy? Here in Australia I have seen a string of documentaries called 30 days (I think) based on the life and society in America, but I can say that the poor in India are more happier than those poor Americans. And you will be pleased to know that in Islam we dont differentiate anyone by the colour of their skin or hair, everyone is equal before God.

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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2005 at 6:20pm

Falcon wrote: Man did not only build strong economy of world only on basis of casting blacks as subhuman - it is "OUR" nature, mankind to be Evil first and Righteous only as struggle through discipline.  We are BORN of sin.

 

IF the nature of mankind is to be evil first then I think all children born are born with satanic qualities and should have been buried as soon as they were born and the world would have been free of all evil. This makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand Islam believes that every child that is born is pure and free of all evil and comes with the will to submit completely to God. It is the parents or people around the child that make him/her become whatever they become. We are not born of sin rather we commit sin by absorbing satanic qualities of greed, hate etc. But when we seek to rectify ourselves then we also begin our search for guidance. Only a constant desire to cleanse oneself of sin can lead to the search for true guidance. That true guidance is in the belief of the existence of the One and Only true God and to work righteousness by following what He has enjoined.

 

Unlike the belief of the Christians that man is born of sin, in Islam we believe that man is born pure and has the opportunity to remain pure by believing in the One God and working righteousness. Then he has the hope of a good hereafter. He is accountable for all his actions and only true repentance can wipe out his sins and one cannot escape by just getting baptized into a Christian and confessing his sins to a priest.

Falcon also wrote: We believers base our choices(should)on precise and accurate religeous doctrine word of God - I choose to believe the Bible's teachings that Jesus IS the Son of God.  The New Testament teaches me to follow Jesus and his desciples, not turn to a different source (Qur'an nor Muhammed)

 

I agree with the first part of your first statement, but with regards to the second part your statement, let me tell you that recently some churches have come forward and admitted that not all parts of the Bible are true. The main bone of contention between the Muslims and the Christians is the belief of the Christians in the divinity of Christ. To Muslims God cannot be compared with man and God does not possess any of the baser functions of a man. such as eating, drinking, excreting etc. God is far above all this and is free of all wants. But Jesus performed all the functions of a human being as above and yet you attribute divinity to him? Falcon think carefully, many priests have also become Muslims by opening their minds and finding the clear logic of Islam
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Quote tgrant Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2005 at 12:11pm

You guys have no idea how hillarious this is to me.  Wathing a debate on the merits of Christianity vs. Islam is like watching two children debate the "science" behind what makes raindeer fly.  Your assumptions are inane to say the least.

I've seen several references in this thread regarding the openmindedness required to understand Islam but before you spend the rest of your lives debating that which is untestable and hence unknowable you might want to "open your minds" to a few other possibilities:

Secular Humanism: http://www.secularhumanism.org/

String Theory: http://www.superstringtheory.com/

Goedel's Theorem: http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~suchii/Logic/goedel.html

I guess a good analogy would be that you are attempting to understand how an automobile works without looking under the hood.  You're sitting in the comfortable cabin speculating about squirls on treadmills and, worse yet, mystic powers which propel the vehicle.  Take a look under the hood folks.  You might be suprised at the progess intellectuals have been quitely making while the rest of us sat on the sidelines with our fantasies.

Good luck

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2005 at 1:36pm

Bismillah,

If you don't respect us, you really need to leave, Grant.  I took the time to look at your sites.  Sorry, I don't have time for a course in string theory right now.  As for the human secularism site, don't they have a discussion board there where you can communicate with people on your own level?

People who have faith have assumptions.  God is many things to us, and you have no respect for that and don't wish to learn anything from such "inane" people.  Go save the planet; it needs you.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2005 at 6:44pm

Good on you Herjihad! Aptly said! I wonder why Tgrant came on to his site in the first place when he has already found the company of "intellectuals".

 

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liberty
 
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Quote liberty Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 6:26am

In your debate of Christianity vs Islam, there is no winner.  Every person must find their own way, some choose Judaism, some choose Islam, etc..  However, most accept the religion they are taught growing up!  A sort of indoctrination process.

A religion is based upon faith, there is not one true, correct religion.  Anyone claiming there faith or religion is the one and true religion is overreaching.

Tgran seems to have found a belief he is comfortable with and is just challenging you intellectually and your response is to tell him to get lost.  It is very important in todays world that we keep lines of communication open especially when we disagree.

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 8:11am

Bismillah,

No, Lib, people come on this site for the sole purpose of laughing at and ridiculing believers, Muslims, multi-culturalism et cetera.  There are a lot of cases where others have dallied with such folks, and that is up to each of us.  However, we enjoy real intellectual challenges. 

 So it is very important not to clog the airwaves with senseless ridicule by succintly closing  the lines of degradation.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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