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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2005 at 3:15pm

Tgrant wrote: BTW: I Actually happen to enjoy rock and roll.  Free sex would be great but I haven't come accross that just yet.  I'm not much into the other "vices" you mentioned but I believe in a person's freedom to make their own choices.  See this is were we differ.  You believe that EVERY persons behavior should be dictated by a book YOU find fullfilling.  I don't care if you wish to live in a cave or a castle, eat meat or vegatables, or what clothes you wear.  Live your life, follow your beliefs.  Just be tolerant of others who choose a different path. 

I am not intolerant of what you do or don't do. To everyone his own. I will not be held accountable for what you do and you won't be held accountable for me. It is not me going on to other religions websites and preaching my religion. When people come on to a website which is meant to expound Islam I am here to help clarify why I believe Islam can offer complete happiness and fulfillment, not the pseudo happiness that you seem to enjoy. You have taken the time to read the Quran and have yourself said that there is a lot of good in it. If you approach it with a clean heart and a cool mind and patience you will also see the truth. There are many who have found the truth and happiness and will never turn away and there are those who approach it in order to find fault and they are blinded, so they continue to blunder about. It is upto you which path you choose. May God guide you.

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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2005 at 4:16pm

Tgrant wrote: On the role of women, let me ask it this way.  According to the Quran, are women to be subserviant to men?  Yes or no.  From my, al beit limited, observations, Muslim men appear to treat their wifes as property.  This is a show stopper in civilized cultures which will always make Islam a barbaric and unacceptable religion.  Is this behavior cultural or does in have its roots in the Quran?

The short answer to your question is NO. The roles of Men and women are defined. It is the duty of the Man to provide for his wife and children and also has a duty towards his parents. It is the duty of the woman to safeguard her husband's property in his absence. If the woman has her own earnings, these are for her to keep. He has no right to demand it from her. She can choose to share it or not share it with her husband. She has a share in her husband's estate upon his death and she has a share in her parents estate as well. One thing that at first glance intrigues Muslims and non-Muslims alike is why she receives only half of what a man receives. This is because God has assigned certain duties to men and certain duties to women. While whatever she receives is hers to keep, he has a duty to take care of his family.

Also please don't judge Islam by what you perceive in the behaviour of Muslims. Just as in any other religion there are different types of Muslims and each one will be judged on their own.

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Quote Shamil Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2005 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by tgrant

From my, al beit limited, observations, Muslim men appear to treat their wifes as property. 

And of course in America, where men regularly go to clubs where women strip for them, and in some states legally use women as prostitutes, there is such a higher respect for women. Most civilized.

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Quote Abeer23 Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2005 at 2:27pm
Shamil,
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tgrant
 
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Quote tgrant Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2005 at 12:31pm

Maryga wrote: The roles of Men and women are defined.

This is were you lose me.  Why do religions have such a need to cast human being into certain roles based on their genitilia?  Why not use hair color?   Or better yet skin color.  This is how America was able to build the strongest economy in the world.  By casting blacks as sub-human.  Yeah, that worked out great.

Why not let a human being define his or her own "role" in life?  Why not let them make their own decisions, good or bad.  Strippers expose their bodies to men and take home thousands of dollars per week.  So who's really being exploited here, the men or the women?  The point is that no one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

 

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freebird
 
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Quote freebird Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2005 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by tgrant

This is were you lose me.  Why do religions have such a need to cast human being into certain roles based on their genitilia?  Why not use hair color?   Or better yet skin color.  This is how America was able to build the strongest economy in the world.  By casting blacks as sub-human.  Yeah, that worked out great.

In the past the humanity ignored their differences based on their genitilia and the result was - they did not know that their existance and continous existance relied havily by the existance of women who bring humanity into this world. It was religion who inform humanity of this abnormality. Men with men was normal relationship, they just did not know what was wrong with it. 

But yes, if there was no information regarding this or ignore it and they would extinct, we would not be here by now.

Beside that, physically women are weaker and thats why they are encouraged to use their head. Anyway I don't actually know what is your rant all about other than just rant: 

Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember - Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward. (33:35)

Originally posted by

Why not let a human being define his or her own "role" in life?  Why not let them make their own decisions, good or bad.

We live in this world as a community, a bad conduct by one member craete an impact or impact to others, commonsense.

Originally posted by

Strippers expose their bodies to men and take home thousands of dollars per week.
 

So, once you have your way than every woman strip their clothes, will than each and every one of them will take home thousands of dollars per week? The harvard economist will disagree with you - I think.

Originally posted by

So who's really being exploited here, the men or the women?  The point is that no one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

Try refuse to pay tax on your payroll and tell them that you are a free guy who does not live under any master, and see what's happen. It does not do any good barking in here. 

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Falcon
 
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Quote Falcon Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 11:04pm

*First post, from a female Christian in USA.

tgrant - I was withya buddy; then, well I simply had to disagree.....

Men and Women ARE cast in certain roles because we ARE different.  How can you put hair, skin color in the same basket as genetalia?  Men and Women can have the same hair and skin color, but most men and women - well, the genetalia is what "defines" them, thus you call them Man or Woman(except in cases of birth defects as hermaphrodite etc...)

Man did not only build strong economy of world only on basis of casting blacks as subhuman - it is "OUR" nature, mankind to be Evil first and Righteous only as struggle through discipline.  We are BORN of sin.

My point (that I don't clearly nor quickly make, sorry) - my point is that - we SHOULD not "make our own choices" based on our own "feeeeelings" of what our role in life should be because then where are the boundaries?  Then there is no line between right and wrong....        &nb sp;         &nb sp;     Like NAMBLA(North American Man/Boy Love Association)>those perverted pedophiles SICKEN me - but they profess it as their CHOICE..........and the ACLU has even come to their defense (reference Michael Savage books and Bill O'Reilly books - conservative American radio hosts.)

We believers base our choices(should)on precise and accurate religeous doctrine word of God - I choose to believe the Bible's teachings that Jesus IS the Son of God.  The New Testament teaches me to follow Jesus and his desciples, not turn to a different source (Qur'an nor Muhammed)

Yes, God gave us free will - but He hopes we choose righteousness and He teaches us through the Bible what is sin, what is right, wrong, perverted, what corrupts, what kills, etc....         Where lies your moral compass?>based on your 'self' determining the rules of right and/or wrong?  based on another 'mans' word - a mere mortal human being?  We are so ignorant and unworthy of such power compared to God.  We humans could NEVER have imagined such perfections as in the laws of physics, the vast universe, the miracle of conception, birth, creation, the details of existance, DNA, scientific relationship connections of energy and matter....etc.  There HAS to be a God(as far as I base my faith)        

I digress - back to original topic - I, as a Christian visiting this site would simply state that I happen to NOT believe that most of the Muslims are terrorists, but I still have serious reservations about Islam and Muslims........

I appreciate your time if you chose to read - sorry for the long post.

 

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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2005 at 2:31am
Originally posted by tgrant

Maryga wrote: The roles of Men and women are defined.

This is were you lose me. Why do religions have such a need to cast human being into certain roles based on their genitilia? Why not use hair color?



If you look at history, man and woman had different roles.

During the stone age male used to humt for food while woman prepared it, y? because at that time men were twice the size of female.

IF you look in the religion, all the prophets were men, (ie Adam, Jesus,Moses,Joseph,David)

IF you look at "American scientific", there us an article about difference between male and female brain in humans. therefore they have different roles

"Several intriguing behavioral studies add to the evidence that some sex differences in the brain arise before a baby draws its first breath."



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