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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2013 at 7:12am
I believe that Jesus(pbuh) is the prominent messenger of Allah,no Muslim is a Muslim if he doesn't believe in Jesus(pbuh),ALLAH lifted jesus(pbuh) alive(ch 4 v 157-158),because Jesus Christ(pbuh) is the only messenger whose followers claimed that he claimed divinity which is FALSE.visit the site Just Genesis:Thamudic scripts.Thamud was the community that existed after Ad community,Allah sent prophet Hud(pbuh) to propogate oneness of God to Ad,most people from Ad revolted against him and in return Allah caused calamity and the surviving people after calamity on Ad were Thamud people who are still believed to b one of the best architects of mankind,they used to carve buildings from mountains.from among the thamud community Allah chose Prophet Saleh(pbuh) to propogate oneness of Allah to them.

Edited by NABA - 30 August 2013 at 7:18am
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2013 at 8:22am
Originally posted by NABA

I believe that Jesus(pbuh) is the prominent messenger of Allah,no Muslim is a Muslim if he doesn't believe in Jesus(pbuh),

Muslims respect and honour Jesus and recognize Him as prophet. He was however even more than this. He is God in the flesh, who came down as the Son and died for us on the cross.
Originally posted by NABA


ALLAH lifted jesus(pbuh) alive(ch 4 v 157-158),because Jesus Christ(pbuh) is the only messenger whose followers claimed that he claimed divinity which is FALSE.

It is TRUE that He is God and it is TRUE that He is the Son of God and it is TRUE that He died on the cross and rose from the dead.
Originally posted by NABA


visit the site Just Genesis:Thamudic scripts.

Fascinating site, thank you for sharing it. It states that the Thamud were a people who lived in the ancient times, and that they made rock art. It says absolutely nothing about them carving homes out of rock, either at Al Hijr, or anywhere else.
http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.ca/2011/11/thamudic-scripts.html
Originally posted by NABA


Thamud was the community that existed after Ad community,Allah sent prophet Hud(pbuh) to propogate oneness of God to Ad,most people from Ad revolted against him and in return Allah caused calamity and the surviving people after calamity on Ad were Thamud people who are still believed to b one of the best architects of mankind,they used to carve buildings from mountains.from among the thamud community Allah chose Prophet Saleh(pbuh) to propogate oneness of Allah to them.

It is true that the Thamud were a community.
 It is not true that they were "the best architects of mankind".

There is no record outside of the Quran of them carving homes from rocks.

There is evidence that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr... the same ones that the Quran describes in the present tense and that Muhammad told his men not to enter without weeping... were built not by the Thamud, but by the Nabataeans.

The Quran is wrong about the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr, as it is wrong about bodies of water being prevented from mixing by a "forbidden barrier", and about many other things. It's author was clearly unaware of plants, since He told bees to "eat from all the fruits"... even when there are some fruits that bees cannot get to or are poisoned by.

It is a good book and there is some truth and wisdom in it, but it is not from God.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2013 at 7:09am
visit the site perishednations.com.i gave U the response,because in that verse regarding bee,the last line was this is for people who give thought,so obviously a wise guy will enquire before extracting honey.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2013 at 11:26am
Originally posted by NABA

visit the site perishednations.com.

Assalamu Alaikum, NABA.

I am quite surprised that you referred to that site... if it is true, it means the Quran is doubly wrong.

Harun Yahya wrote:

Archaeological Finds about Thamud

Of those peoples mentioned in the Qur'an, Thamud are some of the people about whom we have the most extensive knowledge today. Historical resources reveal that a people called Thamud indeed existed.

The community of al-Hijr mentioned in the Qur'an are thought to be the same people as Thamud. The other name of Thamud is Ashab al-Hijr. So, the word "Thamud" is the name of a people, while the city of al-Hijr is one of those cities founded by these people. The Greek geographer Pliny's descriptions agree with this. Pliny wrote that Domatha and Hegra were the locations where Thamud resided, and this latter makes up the city of Hijr today.
1

The oldest sources known referring to Thamud, are the victory annals of the Babylonian King, Sargon II (8th Century BC), who defeated these people in a campaign in northern Arabia. The Greeks also refer to this people as "Tamudaei", i.e. "Thamud", in the writings of Aristo, Ptolemy, and Pliny.2 Before the Prophet Muhammad, approximately between 400-600 AD, they totally disappeared.

http://perishednations.com/thamud2.html

So the Thamud were first mentioned in the 8th century BC, and they "totally disappeared" between AD 400 and AD 600. Yet the Quran states that they were destroyed before Moses, who lived before 1100 BC.

Why you brought this site up, I have no idea. It also does not provide any historical or archaeological evidence for the claim that the building carved out of rock at Al Hijr were made by the Thamud before Salih.

The author states that the Thamud carved homes out of rock, using the Quran as his reference, and nothing more. He states there is archaeological evidence of the Thamud... and that it is comprised of Thamudic rock writings and pictures... not buildings. He then shows pictures of buildings carved out of rock at Petra... and admits that these buildings were made by the Nabataeans.

In ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes that seem to have been prominent. Although the Thamud probably originated in Southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on to the slopes of Jabal (Mount) Athlab. Recent archaeological work has revealed numerous Thamudic rock writings and pictures not only on Jabal Athlab, but also throughout Central Arabia.3

The Nabataeans, which was an Arab tribe, had established a kingdom in the Rum Valley in Jordan. In this place, also called the Valley of Petra, it is possible to see the best examples of the stone-carving work of these people. Also in the Qur'an, Thamud are mentioned with their mastery of masonry. However, today, what is left of both of these communities is some remains that give us an idea of the art of that time. In the pictures, various examples of the stone-carving work in Petra Valley are seen..


http://perishednations.com/thamud2.html

So Harun Yahya mentions that the buildings carved out of rock that are found at Petra (he says nothing about archaeological findings in Al Hijr) were made by the Nabataeans. He states that the archaeological evidence from the Thamud is comprised of rock art.


Originally posted by NABA

i gave U the response,because in that verse regarding bee,the last line was this is for people who give thought,so obviously a wise guy will enquire before extracting honey.

As I have shown you, the tafsirs explain that the part "for people who give thought" is a reference to that people are supposed to realize that God made the bee.

You seem to be suggesting that people should not believe the words of the Quran unconditionally. In other words, even if God says that honey provides healing, we shouldn't really trust Him because sometimes it can also make you sick.


Edited by TG12345 - 31 August 2013 at 10:01pm
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2013 at 7:47am
but honey acts as a medicine yes??okay Allah mention this in ch 16 v 68-69,but Allah in ch 5 v 90 says don't intoxicate ur body,so obviously we will enquire about bees,because Allah also questions our wisdom in the end of verse,do U know how honey is extracted??its a tedious process,in that verse Allah says that eat of fruits to bees not humans,moreover Allah in ch 2 v 222 says Allah loves those who R pure,means pure people will consume clean products that's y Allah urges us to keep our minds open while reading Qur'an.Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) said trust in Allah and tie the camel means trust in Allah but work hard.i told u about the site because it doesn't say Qur'an is wrong,u say the word if in ur statement I say definitely the structures are made by thamud.Allah says in ch 29 v 69-strive in way of Allah,Allah will open pathways,so man decided to extract honey slowly slowly Allah guided man to better ways of extraction bcoz u also know not even a leaf falls without permission of Allah(ch 6 v 59).
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2013 at 11:14am
Originally posted by NABA

but honey acts as a medicine yes??

Sometimes as a medicine, and sometimes as a poison. The Quran's author didn't point that out.
Originally posted by NABA


okay Allah mention this in ch 16 v 68-69,but Allah in ch 5 v 90 says don't intoxicate ur body,so obviously we will enquire about bees,

Poisonous honey is not an intoxicant.
Originally posted by NABA


because Allah also questions our wisdom in the end of verse,do U know how honey is extracted??its a tedious process,in that verse Allah says that eat of fruits to bees not humans

Yes, He said to bees to eat of all the fruits. This is despite the fact that there are fruits that bees are incapable of eating, and there are others that poison them. Why would God tell bees to do something they are incapable of doing?
Originally posted by NABA


moreover Allah in ch 2 v 222 says Allah loves those who R pure,means pure people will consume clean products

Honey from Andromeda is very clean.
Originally posted by NABA


 that's y Allah urges us to keep our minds open while reading Qur'an.Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) said trust in Allah and tie the camel means trust in Allah but work hard.

So if Allah tells you something is good for you, should you believe Him right away, or make sure you look into it to make sure He isn't wrong?
Originally posted by NABA


i told u about the site because it doesn't say Qur'an is wrong,u say the word if in ur statement

The site says the Thamud disappeared in AD400-600. The Quran claims they were destroyed before Moses, who lived before 1100 BC.
Originally posted by NABA


I say definitely the structures are made by thamud.

Archaeologists who have actually done research will tell you that the structures were made by the Nabataeans. Not even the site you cited claims the buildings in Petra were made by the Thamud.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah says in ch 29 v 69-strive in way of Allah,Allah will open pathways,so man decided to extract honey slowly slowly Allah guided man to better ways of extraction bcoz u also know not even a leaf falls without permission of Allah(ch 6 v 59).

It doesn't matter how slowly or carefully you extract honey from bees that have eaten of the Andromeda plant. The honey will still harm you.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2013 at 7:10am
obviously if any poison comes in our body we will say our body is toxicated,Allah says in ch 16 v 14-fishes are permissible to eat but before eating we have to make sure it is clean or not I can't eat it raw,because I have faith in Allah I m consuming it,Allah has given us brains for what??to live wisely Allah says in ch 8 v 29-that fear of Allah in an individual urges him to differentiate between good and bad,for eg Allah says meat is permissible but in ch 2 v 173,ch 6 v 145,ch 16 v 115,Allah forbids us those food on which other name is there besides Allah,in short we consume halal meat I.e in the name Allah,besides that scientifically halal meat is good for health,I give this example to U because Allah says honey is good for health,I believe in him but when I m consuming honey,I also think that don't intoxicate my body(ch 5 v 90),don't let ir hands to b the cause of your own destruction(ch 2 v 195),disease U quoted is one of the rare diseases it may happen to those who R not professional extracters,i ask U where U buy honey from???from a local source or a branded source??obviously U will buy from branded source because they keep all things in mind.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2013 at 10:55am
Originally posted by NABA

obviously if any poison comes in our body we will say our body is toxicated,Allah says in ch 16 v 14-fishes are permissible to eat but before eating we have to make sure it is clean or not I can't eat it raw,because I have faith in Allah I m consuming it,Allah has given us brains for what??to live wisely Allah says in ch 8 v 29-that fear of Allah in an individual urges him to differentiate between good and bad,for eg Allah says meat is permissible but in ch 2 v 173,ch 6 v 145,ch 16 v 115,Allah forbids us those food on which other name is there besides Allah,in short we consume halal meat I.e in the name Allah,besides that scientifically halal meat is good for health,I give this example to U because Allah says honey is good for health,I believe in him but when I m consuming honey,I also think that don't intoxicate my body(ch 5 v 90),don't let ir hands to b the cause of your own destruction(ch 2 v 195),disease U quoted is one of the rare diseases it may happen to those who R not professional extracters,i ask U where U buy honey from???from a local source or a branded source??obviously U will buy from branded source because they keep all things in mind.

Salaam Alaikum.

The disease I quoted isn`t a disease at all, it is simply the effect of some types of honey... something that the Quran's author didn't consider telling the readers.

Making comparisons to halal meat makes no sense, because the Quran makes it very clear what types of meat can be eaten, and what types cannot be. 16:14 talks not only about fish but about living things from the ocean, which God has given for people to eat.

5:90 is a reference to alcohol. Read the tafsirs.

Your quote about 'professional extractors' and 'branded source' is quite interesting, because during Muhammad's time, there were no such things. People would extract honey from bees. If these bees took nectar from wholesome fruit, the people eating it would be fine. If the bees took nectar from some dangerous plants, the people eating it would get sick.

The Quran has God on record as saying that honey contains healing. This is sometimes true, and sometimes also false.
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