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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2013 at 7:48am
regarding the verse 25-53,go to the site English.islamicmessage.com,it is mentioned that Dr William Hay a scientist has confirmed the phenomenon of barrier between salty and non salty water,its a fact present at gibralter,and in case of estuaries pycnoclinic zone acts as barrier,moreover I haven't found any scientific organizations that contraindicates Qur'an they say they were created by nabaeteans but they also mention what Qur'an says means they give preference to Qur'an which is right.if U say U love Allah y U assign human attributes to him such as dying,I ask U a simple question for one moment think U R neutral and I present U a verse-Allah is one,Allah is eternal,he begets not begot,there is nothing like him.based on this verse do U really think God can die???Allah has no end no beginning Allah is one,the Almighty,Allah says in ch 3 v 185-every living thing will have to taste death,so U think God who is responsible for life can die???think about it.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2013 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by NABA

regarding the verse 25-53,go to the site English.islamicmessage.com,it is mentioned that Dr William Hay a scientist has confirmed the phenomenon of barrier between salty and non salty water,its a fact present at gibralter,
 
I don't normally link to videos, but in this case I think it is worthwhile to hear what Dr. Hay himself has to say about this in his own words:
Dr. Hay explains that he was duped into making certain statements that were then quoted out of context to make it seem as if he was confirming the divine origin of the Quran, when in fact he absolutely denies that claim.  Start at about the 4 minute mark if you don't want to hear the whole thing.
 
and in case of estuaries pycnoclinic zone acts as barrier,...
 
No, it doesn't, as I already told you.  The pycnoclinic zone simply refers to the layer where mixing takes place.  And mixing does indeed take place, though maybe not as rapidly as some might expect.  There is no barrier.  The Quran is wrong about that.
Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2013 at 9:38pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.

Originally posted by NABA

regarding the verse 25-53,go to the site English.islamicmessage.com,it is mentioned that Dr William Hay a scientist has confirmed the phenomenon of barrier between salty and non salty water,

I would like to see a quote of what he actually said. There is a zone between salty and "sweet" water, but it is a zone in which both salty and "sweet" water mix.
Originally posted by NABA


its a fact present at gibralter,

The Sill of Gibraltar is a terrible example to use, given that the Quran verses state that one of the seas is not only "sweet" but also "palatable".

25:53

It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

Neither the Atlantic Ocean or the Mediterranean Sea is "palatable" or "sweet". If you drink seawater, you will get sick and you may even die.

Drinking seawater can be deadly to humans


Deployment%20of%20a%20CTD%20rosette

One of the instruments scientists can use to measure salinity is a CTD rosette, which measures the Conductivity (salinity), Temperature, and Depth of the water column.

Seawater contains salt. When humans drink seawater, their cells are thus taking in water and salt. While humans can safely ingest small amounts of salt, the salt content in seawater is much higher than what can be processed by the human body. Additionally, when we consume salt as part of our daily diets, we also drink liquids, which help to dilute the salt and keep it at a healthy level. Living cells do depend on sodium chloride (salt) to maintain the bodys chemical balances and reactions; however, too much sodium can be deadly.

Human kidneys can only make urine that is less salty than salt water. Therefore, to get rid of all the excess salt taken in by drinking seawater, you have to urinate more water than you drank. Eventually, you die of dehydration even as you become thirstier.


http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/drinksw.html

If the author of the Quran referred to either the Mediterranean Sea or the Atlantic Ocean as "palatable", then we have yet more evidence that he cannot be God.

Originally posted by NABA

and in case of estuaries pycnoclinic zone acts as barrier,

As I have already demonstrated, in estuaries, the water mixes at a certain level. I will post this again.

Salt-wedge estuaries are the most stratified, or least mixed, of all estuaries (Molles, 2002; Ross, 1995). They are also called highly stratified estuaries. Salt-wedge estuaries occur when a rapidly flowing river discharges into the ocean where tidal currents are weak. The force of the river pushing fresh water out to sea rather than tidal currents transporting seawater upstream determines the water circulation in these estuaries. As fresh water is less dense than saltwater, it floats above the seawater. A sharp boundary is created between the water masses, with fresh water floating on top and a wedge of saltwater on the bottom. Some mixing does occur at the boundary between the two water masses, but it is generally slight. The location of the wedge varies with the weather and tidal conditions. Examples of salt-wedge estuaries are the Columbia River in Washington and Oregon, the Hudson River in New York, and the Mississippi River in Louisiana.

In the animation below, the blue-colored fresh water flows from the river on the right-hand side of the image over a green-colored wedge of salty seawater as it moves out toward the ocean on the left-hand side of the image.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/kits/estuaries/media/supp_estuar05a_wedge.html

The pycnoclinic zone exists in oceans, and it separates water that has already been mixed from other water.

Mixing in the ocean occurs on several scales, the smallest scale being molecular. If a layer of warm, salty water lies above a layer of colder, fresher water, the heat and salt will tend to diffuse (spread out) downwards to make a single layer with intermediate temperature and salinity values. However, because heat diffuses faster than salt, the process can lead to local instabilities in the density structure which cause mixing within a layer many meters thick. The best-known example of this process, known as salt fingering, occurs where very salty water from the Mediterranean outflow mixes into the North Atlantic.

Several%20eddies%20in%20the%20Pacific%20Ocean%20are%20visible%20in%20this%20pseudo-color%20satellite%20view%20of%20British%20Columbias%20Queen%20Charlotte%20Islands%20and%20Alaskas%20Alexander%20Archipelago.%20The%20eddies%20are%20formed%20by%20strong%20outflow%20currents%20from%20coastal%20rivers%20that%20are%20rich%20in%20nutrients%20from%20spring%20snowmelt.%20The%20nutrient-rich%20water%20helps%20stimulate%20phytoplankton%20blooms,%20whose%20chlorophyll%20concentrations%20yield%20the%20colored%20swirls.
Several eddies in the Pacific Ocean are visible in this pseudo-color satellite view of British Columbia's Queen Charlotte Islands and Alaska's Alexander Archipelago. The eddies are formed by strong outflow currents from coastal rivers that are rich in nutrients from spring snowmelt. The nutrient-rich water helps stimulate phytoplankton blooms, whose chlorophyll concentrations yield the colored swirls.

Most mixing, however, takes place on larger scales in response to forcing by the wind (in the upper layers), by tides (particularly close to shore or in confined areas or those with rough topography), or by currents. Mixing by winds and tides often results in a surface mixed layer having homogeneous temperature and salinity. This layer may be separated from the water below it by a jump in temperature or salinity, known as a thermocline or pycnocline, respectively. * ... and this happens in oceans. If 25:53 is describing oceans, there is a major problem because the water in them is not palatable by any standard.

Originally posted by NABA

moreover I haven't found any scientific organizations that contraindicates Qur'an they say they were created by nabaeteans

If they say the buildings were created by the Nabataeans, they contradict the Quran, because the Quran states they were built by the Thamud.

Are you a Quran only Muslim? I'm not sure if you've answered my question.
Originally posted by NABA


but they also mention what Qur'an says means they give preference to Qur'an which is right.

Which of the sites I cited mentioned that? And even if they did, so what, if their findings proved that the buildings the Quran claims were built by the Thamud were actually built by the Nabataeans, almost a milennium afterwards?
Originally posted by NABA


if U say U love Allah y U assign human attributes to him such as dying,I ask U a simple question for one moment think U R neutral and I present U a verse-Allah is one,Allah is eternal,he begets not begot,there is nothing like him.based on this verse do U really think God can die???

This verse is from the Quran, and as I have shown already, the Quran contains some obvious scientific and historical errors, so it cannot be from God.

Allah is one. Yes.
Allah is eternal. Yes.
Allah begets not nor was He begotten. False. Allah the Father begat Allah the Son. Allah begat Himself and came down to the world.
There is nothing like Allah. True. We human beings can never be like God. He created us in His likeness and image and has helped us understand Him better through the prophets and Scriptures and by appearing among us as a Jesus, but we can never truly understand Him.

Allah chose to die for us on the cross. However, Allah is a Trinity. So while Allah the Son died, Allah the Father and Holy Spirit was alive. Allah was both alive and dead simultaneously. How is it possible for us? It isn't. But for Him, everything is possible. He is amazing!

Originally posted by NABA

Allah has no end no beginning Allah is one,the Almighty,Allah says in ch 3 v 185-every living thing will have to taste death,

All this is true.
Originally posted by NABA


so U think God who is responsible for life can die???think about it.

Of course God can die if He chooses to die. Do you believe God cannot die? Are you saying there are things He can and cannot do? Are you telling God to live by your rules? Are you bossing Him around?

May He guide you to Him.


Edited by TG12345 - 25 August 2013 at 9:41pm
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2013 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by NABA

regarding the verse 25-53,go to the site English.islamicmessage.com,it is mentioned that Dr William Hay a scientist has confirmed the phenomenon of barrier between salty and non salty water,its a fact present at gibralter,
 
I don't normally link to videos, but in this case I think it is worthwhile to hear what Dr. Hay himself has to say about this in his own words:
Dr. Hay explains that he was duped into making certain statements that were then quoted out of context to make it seem as if he was confirming the divine origin of the Quran, when in fact he absolutely denies that claim.  Start at about the 4 minute mark if you don't want to hear the whole thing.
 
and in case of estuaries pycnoclinic zone acts as barrier,...
 
No, it doesn't, as I already told you.  The pycnoclinic zone simply refers to the layer where mixing takes place.  And mixing does indeed take place, though maybe not as rapidly as some might expect.  There is no barrier.  The Quran is wrong about that.

Thank you for the video and article! The video was quite amazing to watch!
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2013 at 7:27am
Surah Al Boorj ch 85 v 16,Allah says Allah does what he intends to do,Since U accept Allah is eternal so obviously Allah can't die,eternal means free from diseases.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2013 at 12:00pm
U accept that Allah has no end no beginning! ! Then u say God dies (nosbillah) how???? For eg if Naba dies, in other words Naba is ended, so u accept that Allah has no end nor beginning yet u say God dies!!! Moreover in bible in books of acts ch 2 v 22-it is mentioned that Jesus a man approved from u by God through miracles!!!! Miracle was that Jesus(pbuh) was born without human intervention.look Allah is boss of everything Allah says in Quran in ch 6 v 59-even a leaf can't fall without Allah's permission in ch 10 v 61-everything equal to an atom is known to Allah, brother the way u r ascribing humanely attributes to Allah fear him!!!! U know to say merry Christmas(nosbillah) is wrong in islam, because by thisone is giving shahdah that Allah has begotten son (nosbillah), n u r ascribing these words to it??? Is this your love??? U read Quran only to find faults??? U should read ch 19 v 88-92-Allah says they (unbelievers) say Allah has begotten son, if sky would have feelings it would have burst out, if earth would have feelings it would have burst out, the word begotten should not at all b ascribed to Allah.Allah is one, the Almighty, way above all needs.AllahuAkbar!!!!!!
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2013 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by NABA

Surah Al Boorj ch 85 v 16,Allah says Allah does what he intends to do,Since U accept Allah is eternal so obviously Allah can't die,eternal means free from diseases.

Salaam Alaikum.

Allah is eternal, but that does not mean that He cannot choose to die and then come back to life. Are you telling Allah what He can and cannot do? Do you feel you are good enough to tell Him of His limitations?

Also, according to both Islam and Christianity, people are eternal beings. We live now, and when we die, we will either enter heaven or hell, and abide there eternally.

If eternal beings like us can die, why can't Allah? Are you saying that He is incapable of doing something that humans do?
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2013 at 3:02pm
Assalamu Alaikum, NABA.

Originally posted by NABA

U accept that Allah has no end no beginning!

Yes.
Originally posted by NABA

! Then u say God dies (nosbillah) how????

God died by allowing Himself to be nailed to the cross, as Jesus Christ. As the Father and the Holy Spirit, He did not die. He simultaneously died and remained alive.
Originally posted by NABA


For eg if Naba dies, in other words Naba is ended,

When NABA or TG12345 dies, we are not ended. When we die, our life on this earth has ended, and we begin preparing for our eternal life. It may be in heaven or in hell, but it will be eternal.
Although we die, this does not mean we cease to exist. If we can die and still live eternally, are you saying God cannot?
Originally posted by NABA


 so u accept that Allah has no end nor beginning yet u say God dies!!!

Yes.
Originally posted by NABA


 Moreover in bible in books of acts ch 2 v 22-it is mentioned that Jesus a man approved from u by God through miracles!!!!

Jesus was both man and God. The Bible teaches this, in Colossians 2:8-10

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spiritsa]">[a] of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

Originally posted by NABA


 Miracle was that Jesus(pbuh) was born without human intervention.

That was one of His miracles. He also raised the dead, walked on water, rose from the dead, and did other amazing things.
Originally posted by NABA


look Allah is boss of everything Allah says in Quran in ch 6 v 59-even a leaf can't fall without Allah's permission in ch 10 v 61-everything equal to an atom is known to Allah, brother the way u r ascribing humanely attributes to Allah fear him!!!!

Allah indeed does know everything and nothing happens without His permission. I love Allah and I fear Him. I do not want to go to hell for rejecting what He did for me on the cross. Do you?
Originally posted by NABA


 U know to say merry Christmas(nosbillah) is wrong in islam, because by thisone is giving shahdah that Allah has begotten son (nosbillah),

Allah has begotten Himself.
Originally posted by NABA


 n u r ascribing these words to it??? Is this your love???

You mean "Merry Christmas"? There is no such phrase in the Bible.

Have you read the Bible? I've read the Quran.

Originally posted by NABA

U read Quran only to find faults???

No, but as I read it I found several mistakes. You have been unable to disprove them.

By saying Allah wrote the Quran, you are insulting Allah. Do you think He makes mistakes about His own creation?

Originally posted by NABA

U should read ch 19 v 88-92-Allah says they (unbelievers) say Allah has begotten son, if sky would have feelings it would have burst out, if earth would have feelings it would have burst out, the word begotten should not at all b ascribed to Allah.

According to the Quran. A book that was allegedly written by Allah, yet contains mistakes.

Originally posted by NABA

Allah is one, the Almighty, way above all needs.AllahuAkbar!!!!!!

True. All praise be to Allah, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Blessed be His Name!!!!


Edited by TG12345 - 26 August 2013 at 3:03pm
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