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Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2013 at 7:57am
Originally posted by NABA

but nobody in that article contraindicate Qur'an,its ur assumption,definitely yes people say that structures might b created by nabaeteans but they are not going against Qur'an.

They don't say "the Quran is wrong", but their findings clearly show it to be so.

The Quran and hadiths claim that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr were built by the Thamud. Archaeology shows they were built by the Nabataeans. the Quran claims that these buildings were built before the time of Moses. Archaeology shows they were built between the 2nd century BC and the 2nd century AD.

In their description of the Thamud, the Quran and Muhammad made an obvious error.

Could God have made such a mistake in His holy book?
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 23 August 2013 at 7:22am
so u have admitted that Qur'an is not wrong.Allah can't do wrong nor lie(ch 20 v 52).so u R talking about that findings say so,Allah clearly mentions that the way he destroyed Thamud in such a way that they never existed in ch 11 v 68,I also told u that majid khan said that they cannot interpret,moreover they say Qur'an said the buildings were made by Thamud,moreover if u consider bible as a word of God,can u explain the verse of gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,which mentions about the test for TRUE christian believer and can u do that???Allahfiz.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 23 August 2013 at 3:22pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.
Originally posted by NABA

so u have admitted that Qur'an is not wrong.

I said no such thing. Show me evidence that I said that the Quran is not wrong.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah can't do wrong nor lie(ch 20 v 52).

Correct. This is how I know He didn't write the Quran.
Originally posted by NABA


so u R talking about that findings say so,Allah clearly mentions that the way he destroyed Thamud in such a way that they never existed in ch 11 v 68

The Quran's author stated that Allah destroyed the Thamud, but he also wrote that He left their houses standing. The Quran states: "these are their houses, desolate because of the wrong they have done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know" (27:52)
Originally posted by NABA


,I also told u that majid khan said that they cannot interpret,

Majeed Khan said he can't date the words and animals carved into rocks, also known as "rock art", not that they can't interpret the date of the carving of the buildings in Madain Saleh. The website he coauthors clearly states that the Nabataeans are the ones who carved buildings into Madain Saleh. It is written there very clearly.
Originally posted by NABA


moreover they say Qur'an said the buildings were made by Thamud,

Yes, according to the Quran, these buildings were made by the Thamud before Moses. In  reality, they were made by the Nabataeans about a century before the coming of Jesus.
Originally posted by NABA


moreover if u consider bible as a word of God,can u explain the verse of gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,which mentions about the test for TRUE christian believer and can u do that???

Mark 16:9-20 is recognized by most Christians to be an addition, and was not in the original text to begin with.

Even so, most of the things described there were done by early Christians. Paul was bitten by a snake and not harmed when their ship wrecked in Malta (Acts 28:3). Acts 2:13 describes the disciples speaking in tongues. Acts 5:16 describes Peter healing the sick and casting out demons. There is no record of the disciples drinking poison and surviving but again, Mark 16:17,18 is believed to have been an addition.

Now a question for you... while Mark 16:17,18 is an addition, the following hadiths are considered to be authentic for Muslims:

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 7, Book 71, Number 663:

Narrated Saud:

The Prophet said, "If somebody takes some 'Ajwa dates every morning, he will not be effected by poison or magic on that day till night." (Another narrator said seven dates).


Volume 7, Book 71, Number 664:

Narrated Saud:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If Somebody takes seven 'Ajwa dates in the morning, neither magic nor poison will hurt him that day."

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/071-sbt.php#007.071.582


Sahih Muslim

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas, on the authority of his father, reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: He who ate seven dates (of the land situated) between these two lava plains in the morning, no poison will harm him until it is evening.  (Book #023, Hadith #5080)

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=dates+poison&translator=2&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

‘Aisha reported Allah’s Messenger as saying, “The ‘ajwah dates of al-‘Aliya taken as the first thing in the morning, in the state of fasting; contain healing for all (kinds of) magic or toxins.” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 23592)

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2011/07/hadith-ajwa-dates-and-science.html

So according to Muhammad, if you eat 7 ajwa dates in the morning, you would not be affected by either toxins or magic. Bring someone who eats 7 ajwa dates each morning to your house, and feed them some food that is laced with botulism or some other toxin. Regardless of what Muhammad stated, the person would die or at least get very hurt. If you eat 7 ajwa dates in the AM and then are bitten by a poisonous snake, you would also get very badly hurt or die.

How do you explain Muhammad's obvious error in this case?


Edited by TG12345 - 23 August 2013 at 3:29pm
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2013 at 4:01am
We muslims never say hadiths are the word of Allah,u claim bible is the word of God, I m proving to u Quran is the word of Allah and it is, I m quoting u quotes from bible which u claim is the word of God, hadiths are the sayings of Prophet and yes they are moderated but Quran is the pure book Allah takes up the responisibility to preseving Quran in ch 15 v 9 and yes Alhamdullilah most people ranging from children to old people many of them know Quran by heart, ones again brother u r contraindicating yourself by quoting ch 27 v 52, word desolate means uninhabited, means that it never ever existed. U in ur previous post said Quran is not wrong but the findings show it, means on the basis of findings u r saying but did ur findings directly say Quran is wrong?? Scientists say they recorded their findings but they also say the reference of quran means they give preference to Quran first and then they talk.majeed khan said the word interpret in the site past horizon.com, I think u have visited that!!!!

Edited by NABA - 24 August 2013 at 4:04am
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2013 at 5:59am
Originally posted by NABA

We muslims never say hadiths are the word of Allah,

But don't you believe that Muhammad received his teachings from God? As a Muslim, are you allowed to ignore and not follow the hadiths?
Originally posted by NABA


u claim bible is the word of God,

Yes.
Originally posted by NABA

I m proving to u Quran is the word of Allah and it is,

You are trying to.

Originally posted by NABA

I m quoting u quotes from bible which u claim is the word of God,

The Bible is inspired by God. Some parts in the Bible were added later and were not in the original copies, like Mark 16:9-20.

Originally posted by NABA

  hadiths are the sayings of Prophet and yes they are moderated

If hadiths are sayings of Muhammad, where did he get his teachings from? What do you mean by "they are moderated"?

Originally posted by NABA

  but Quran is the pure book Allah takes up the responisibility to preseving Quran in ch 15 v 9 and yes Alhamdullilah most people ranging from children to old people many of them know Quran by heart,

I believe this. It doesn't mean the Quran is true, however.

Originally posted by NABA

  ones again brother u r contraindicating yourself by quoting ch 27 v 52, word desolate means uninhabited, means that it never ever existed.

"uninhabited" means that no one is living in a place, not that the place never existed.

I will show you the tafsirs of this verse.

Al Jalalalyn

So those then are their houses [lying] deserted (khāwiyatan is in the accusative because it is a circumstantial qualifier, the operator of which is the import of the demonstrative pronoun [tilka, ‘those’]) because of the evil which they did, that is, their disbelief. Surely in that there is a sign, a lesson, for a people who have knowledge, of Our power and are thus admonished.

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=27&tAyahNo=52&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Tafsir Ibn Abbas


(See, yonder are their dwellings empty and in ruins because they did wrong) because of their idolatry. (Lo! Herein) in that which We did to them (is indeed a portent) a sign and an admonition (for a people who have knowledge) who believe in that which was done to them.
http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=27&tAyahNo=52&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


, We destroyed them and their nation, all together. These are their houses in utter ruin,) i.e., deserted.''
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2234&Itemid=83

So as we can see, the Quran stated that these "houses" were still around during the time of Muhammad, but that they were in deserted and empty and "in ruins".

Originally posted by NABA


 U in ur previous post said Quran is not wrong but the findings show it,

No, I said that the archaeologists do not say "the Quran is wrong", but their findings clearly show this.

If I say "the sun is blue", then science clearly proves me wrong. A scientist does not have to say "TG12345 is wrong", he or she just needs to show that the sun is not blue, and then that means I am wrong whether or not he or she says this.


Originally posted by NABA

means on the basis of findings u r saying but did ur findings directly say Quran is wrong??

My findings say that the buildings carved out of stone at Al Hijr were carved by the Nabataeans in the between the 2nd century BC and the 2nd century AD. The Quran claims they were carved out of stone by the Thamud before Moses.

Obviously, this shows that the Quran is wrong.


Originally posted by NABA

Scientists say they recorded their findings but they also say the reference of quran means they give preference to Quran first and then they talk.

Please show me where, on any of the sites I have shown so far, this is the case.


Originally posted by NABA

majeed khan said the word interpret in the site past horizon.com, I think u have visited that!!!!

He said it in reference to the rock art, not the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr. Have you read the site?

Allahu Akhbar!
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2013 at 8:04am
because the hadiths were written 300 years after the death of prophet,some of them are authentic some are not,what the main thing is these are written by humans after all,but Qur'an is the word Of Allah so there is no doubt that we believe in Qur'an but in hadiths we do research and then follow,I can't comment because my knowledge in field of Qur'an and hadith is progressing and will b till the end of my life,moreover regarding blue colour of sun its logical that sun is not blue bcoz we c it,I want to ask U a question the residence U R living is the only residence at that plot,does that mean there were no houses on other plots over like in 1700's or before,similarly u quote me any statement quoted by muslim scientist regarding Qur'an being wrong,u say some verses of bible are inspired by God means still in ur bottom of ur heart u feel bible is not word of God,but I say definitely Qur'an "is" the word of Allah,because if u have believed that bible is the word then u should not have said the word inspired.

Edited by NABA - 24 August 2013 at 8:05am
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2013 at 8:35pm

Assalamu Alaikum, NABA

Originally posted by NABA

because the hadiths were written 300 years after the death of prophet,some of them are authentic some are not,

The hadiths in Muslim and Bukhari are considered authentic.
Originally posted by NABA


what the main thing is these are written by humans after all,

But the Quran tells you that what Muhammad said came from God, and that you must obey God and His messenger. Are you a Quran-only Muslim?
Originally posted by NABA


but Qur'an is the word Of Allah so there is no doubt that we believe in Qur'an

And about the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr, the Quran is wrong.
Originally posted by NABA

but in hadiths we do research and then follow,

The hadiths I cited are authentic, unless you can prove otherwise.
Originally posted by NABA


I can't comment because my knowledge in field of Qur'an and hadith is progressing and will b till the end of my life

OK, I hope as you study them more you will see both the good and the errors in them, and turn to God.
Originally posted by NABA


,moreover regarding blue colour of sun its logical that sun is not blue bcoz we c it,

You didn't answer my question. If I say the sun is blue and a scientist says that it is not blue, does he need to say the exact words "TG12345 is wrong", or would his finding prove me wrong?
Originally posted by NABA


I want to ask U a question the residence U R living is the only residence at that plot,does that mean there were no houses on other plots over like in 1700's or before,

No, but that isn't what the Quran verse says. The Quran verse describes the buildings carved out of rocks at Al Hijr that were around at the time of Muhammad and states they were made by the Thamud. In fact, they were built by the Nabataeans.

Originally posted by NABA


similarly u quote me any statement quoted by muslim scientist regarding Qur'an being wrong,

I already quoted a website co-authored by a Muslim archaeologist (Majeed Khan), which states that the buildings carved out of stone at Al Hijr were carved by the Nabataeans between the 2nd century BC and 2nd century AD. I also cited UNESCO and the First International Conference fro Urban Heritage in the Islamic countries, and they say the same thing. Their findings contradict the Quran's account that the Thamud were the ones who carved the buildings.


Originally posted by NABA

u say some verses of bible are inspired by God means still in ur bottom of ur heart u feel bible is not word of God,

Not at all. Only some parts that are in our Bibles were added later, and the editors point that out in our Bibles. Those parts of course as a Christian I do not consider inspired by God, unlike the rest.

Jesus taught that the truth will set us free, so I am not afraid to recognize the truth, and neither were the editors of my Bible, and hence they very honestly showed that some verses were not in the originals.

 


Originally posted by NABA

but I say definitely Qur'an "is" the word of Allah,

If the Quran is the word of Allah, why did Allah mistake the Nabataeans for the Thamud? Also, you haven't continued our discussion on verses 25:53 and 55:19,20.

I showed you clearly that when salty water and non-salty water mix, there is no barrier between them that keeps either water from transgressing. This is as true of the Meditteranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean at the Sill of Gibraltar, as it is of estuaries.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25822

 

Originally posted by NABA

because if u have believed that bible is the word then u should not have said the word inspired.

Why not? The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God. Unlike the Quran and hadiths, it contains no scientific and historical errors that cannot be explained away easily.

I love Allah. He is my Creator, and my Saviour and my Lord. As the Father, He sent Himself down as the Son to die on the cross for your salvation and mine. I would never ever say a word to insult Him or make fun of Him.

Because I love Allah, I could never state that He wrote the Quran or hadiths. The Quran not only denies His trinitarian nature and His death and suffering on the cross, but it also contains mistakes that a human could make, but He couldn't. The Bible describes Him. The Quran says some true things about Him, but also other untrue things, like claiming He is its author.


Allahu Akhbar! Blessed be His holy Name!

Edited by TG12345 - 24 August 2013 at 8:38pm
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2013 at 7:32am
Look,I prefer to exhibit I m a Muslim through my actions for example I offer 5 time salaah,this is the action our beloved prophet use to do,means I m following prophet,our prophet said that convey the message of Islam to other,that's what I m doing here and also other places,our prophet used to recite tahajjud(voluntary prayer at night),that also I do but not regularly but in Sha Allah I will do daily,so there are so many things I do what prophet used to do but I don't declare or say I do,thru my actions I show I m a Muslim.i say this to U because U tell me m I Quran-only Muslim??its a fact some hadiths are moderated.i say that i m not 100% good,nobody is if somebody says he is sinless then he is a liar.
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