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Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2013 at 6:14pm
Assalamu Alaikum, NABA. Hope your day is going well.

Originally posted by NABA

If U pose question on Quran can U clear this query to me regarding bible,in book of genesis ch 1 v 3 n 5-it is said that light was created on first day but in verses 14-19-sun n moon were created on fourth day,how it is possible that cause of light comes after light??

Do you have a lamp at home? Are you able to turn it on during the night, when there is no sun and when there is no moon?

What about a candle? If you light it in the darkness, will you not get light?

If people are capable of making light without the sun and the moon, do you think God couldn't?

Originally posted by NABA

,moreover brother I will stick to my point that thamud carve the buildings because there R 100% chances that since Allah destroyed their civilization it was replaced by new one,

As historical facts show, the buildings carved out of rock that the Quran describes and that Muhammad and his men came across, were not built b the Thamud before Moses, but by the Nabataeans around the 1st century.

Originally posted by NABA

n y U believe in certain researches,

Because they are qualified archaeologists who have been doing this their whole lives, and they also include Muslims, like Majeed Khan.

Originally posted by NABA

because many years back it was believed that moon has its own light but few 200 years back it was discovered that moon reflects the light of sun but Allah mentioned this fact 1400 years ago in Qur'an in ch 25 v 61,

25:61 doesn't say that the moon reflects the light of the sun.

25:61

Blessed is He Who made the constellations in the heavens and made therein a lamp and a shining moon.

The word "reflection" is not listed anywhere. The tafsirs of this verse also do not mention reflection.

Also, even if we want to make the assumption that the Quran does state that the moon's light is reflected from the sun, it would not have been anything new.

Anaxagoras, an ancient Greek astronomer and philisopher who was a pagan, noticed that the moon reflects the light of the sun. An early Christian church leader, Hippolytus, described his theory.

And that beneath the stars are sun and moon, and certain invisible bodies that are carried along with us; and that we have no perception of the heat of the stars, both on account of their being so far away, and on account of their distance from the earth; and further, they are not to the same degree hot as the sun, on account of their occupying a colder situation. And that the moon, being lower than the sun, is nearer us. And that the sun surpasses the Peloponnesus in size. And that the moon has not light of its own, but from the sun.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus1.html

I don't know how the author of the Quran knew that the moon is illuminated by the sun, if in fact he knew that. I know that long before the 7th century, it was already known to some people.

Of course, Anaxagoras made mistakes in some of his theories and beliefs... just as there are some scientific mistakes also in the Quran and hadiths.

Feel free to comment more on the error about the barrier between seas that I wrote about on this thread
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25822

and about Muhammad's mistake about the tailbone that I discussed on the thread below, the last post.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25822

These are not the only scientific mistakes in the Quran and hadiths, but they are enough for now.

Originally posted by NABA

and regarding hardships,as I said there is no word hard for Allah,Allah in ch 85 v 16 says Allah do what he intends.

The Bible agrees. Allah did intend to die on the cross, no one forced Him to.

Originally posted by NABA


u can't judge Allah,there is nothing like him(ch 112 v 4),u just had to have full faith in him and he give u results.

Ameen to that. And it is because I have faith in Allah, I believe in what the Bible states and not what is in the Quran or the hadiths.

I respect the Quran and I respect Muhammad. However, the text in the Quran and the teachings of Muhammad are clearly not from God, since God does not make mistakes.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2013 at 7:18am
if U have read Qur'an U might come across with this verse ch 11 v 68-Allah says that he had destroyed Thamud community in such a way that as if they had never dwelled or flourished there.this verse clearly suggests the high possiblity that there was not even an atom left of thamud community,means there R high chances of new civilization.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2013 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by NABA

if U have read Qur'an U might come across with this verse ch 11 v 68-Allah says that he had destroyed Thamud community in such a way that as if they had never dwelled or flourished there.this verse clearly suggests the high possiblity that there was not even an atom left of thamud community,means there R high chances of new civilization.

Assalamu Alaikum, NABA. If according to the Quran the Thamud community was destroyed in such a way that not even an atom remained, then in addition to being historically incorrect, it is also contradictory.

This verse

27:52
So those are their houses, desolate because of the wrong they had done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know.
And We saved those who believed and used to fear Allah .


means that the houses of the Thamud remained, houses that they allegedly carved out of rock that Muhammad saw at Madain Saleh, still remained. Of course, as we know already, those houses were carved by the Nabataeans. That is a historical error in the Quran and hadiths.

If 11:68 is saying that God destroyed every atom of the Thamud, then it would mean that 27:52 and 11:68 contradict.


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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2013 at 7:21am
the word desolate means devasted,uninhabited means as if nothing existed there,U yourself contraindicating yourself,Allah says in next verse this is the sign for the people to come.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2013 at 8:17am
Originally posted by NABA

the word desolate means devasted,uninhabited means as if nothing existed there,U yourself contraindicating yourself,Allah says in next verse this is the sign for the people to come.

I thought so also, notice that in my last post I wrote "if"...

If according to the Quran the Thamud community was destroyed in such a way that not even an atom remained, then in addition to being historically incorrect, it is also contradictory.

This verse

27:52
So those are their houses, desolate because of the wrong they had done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know.
And We saved those who believed and used to fear Allah .


means that the houses of the Thamud remained, houses that they allegedly carved out of rock that Muhammad saw at Madain Saleh, still remained. Of course, as we know already, those houses were carved by the Nabataeans. That is a historical error in the Quran and hadiths.


If 11:68 is saying that God destroyed every atom of the Thamud, then it would mean that 27:52 and 11:68 contradict.

I did not say the Quran claims that every last trace of the Thamud was destroyed, as you pointed out (and as I pointed out before you), the Quran claims their houses- the ones they allegedly carved into rock- remained.

Of course, the buildings that are carved into rock at Madain Saleh were made by the Nabataeans, not the Thamud.

So the Quran does not contradict itself on this, but instead, makes a historical error.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2013 at 7:01am
of the houses,desolate means house carved by thamud people were destroyed means no signs left of them,means they were existed and destroyed and few years after nabaeateans may build it,I don't know,Allah only knows.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2013 at 10:52am
Greetings TG,

On another forum someone made the statement:
"How about this, go find another "error or contradiction in the quran". If you think there is one, there must be more than, its only rational. If one makes a simple mistake, then for sure there are others."
I shared the link to this discussion.  This is their refutation.  What response you would give?
Here is the supposed 'contradiction' ?

The buildings that Muhammad and his men came across were not built by the Thamud before the time of Moses, but by the Nabateans who built it between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. *

The Quran's claim that the buildings carved out of rock were made by the Thamud during the time of Salih is false

They were also tombs, not houses as Muhammad and the author of the Quran evidently believed

The Quran, in 7:74 doesn't say they were built by Thamud, the ayat mentions the people of 'Ad which were a different group. The OP uses the name Nabateans, which isn't in the Quran and the Quran does not give a specific time for when they lived.  

So 7:74 is about 'Ad, not Thamud. It says 'Ad made houses on the side of mountains.

The Quran does mention Thamud doing a similar activity in 89:9
 
This ayat simply says that Thamud carved rocks in the valley. This verse doesn't use the term 'buyut', houses,

and it also doesn't give a time. So the OPs supposition that the Quran says that Thamud built houses out of rock and that these were the same structures of the Nabateans is wrong. First, the Quran does not say Thamud built 'houses' out of rock, that was another group, the 'Ad. Secondly, it doesn't give a time when Thamud 'carved rocks in the Valley'. Third, the Quran doesn't mention the term 'Nabateans', so also his supposition that there is a contradiction in terms of time (1000 years?) is also false. 
Thanks,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 18 August 2013 at 10:56am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2013 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by NABA

of the houses,desolate means house carved by thamud people were destroyed means no signs left of them,means they were existed and destroyed and few years after nabaeateans may build it,I don't know,Allah only knows.

Salaam Alaikum. If the houses carved by the Thamud were destroyed and there were no signs left of them, why did Muhammad tell his men not to enter them? How could they have entered something that was no longer there? And why does the Quran refer to them in the present tense?
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