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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2013 at 9:29am
Originally posted by quintessential

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by quintessential

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by quintessential

Salamaleykum
That's just what it has to be I'm afraid.
If the both of you cannot agree on the very nature of Allah, how do you expect to agree on anything else?

Salamaleykum brother

Greetings Salamaleykum,

But you have joined the discussion late... this thread is about the errors made in the qur'an about the Thamud.

Salaam,
Caringheart



Salamaleykum

Im not so late.I made a response earlier, maybe about a month ago refuting these claims. Anyone with common sense can cite reasons to dispel them.
My favorite of which being:
 suppose Allah with all his might decided to remove the Nabeathian homes and  reconstruct the homes of the Thamud when the prophet and his troop where passing by specifically for the hadith to be recorded, and  then deconstruct the homes of the Thamud and reconstruct the Nabaethian homes when the troop had passed. He is Allah he can do anything.

Salaam Alaikum.

True, you did respond, and I responded to your response.

I think the idea of God replacing the Nabataean tombs with the 'homes' of the Thamud during Muhammad's journey and then making them back into the 'homes' of the Thamud is pretty far fetched. It would be like Him purposefully bringing the world to an end in 1975 just to prove the Jehovah's Witnesses were right.

Even if this were to have happened, it still wouldn't make up for the mistake in the Quran, which describes the homes of the Thamud in the present form.

So those are their houses, desolate* because of the wrong they had done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know.
Surat An-Naml [27:52] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
* according to Corpus Quran, the word is "ruined".

Tafsir Ibn Abbas explains this verse in this way:

(See, yonder are their dwellings empty and in ruins because they did wrong) because of their idolatry. (Lo! Herein) in that which We did to them (is indeed a portent) a sign and an admonition (for a people who have knowledge) who believe in that which was done to them.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=27&tAyahNo=52&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Was the Quran addressed only to people in the 7th century, or to humanity?

Originally posted by quintessential


But honestly the most likely reason is:
The guy who is making this claim is purposefully misinterpreting and concocting a vain theory to suit his needs.

Please show me how my sources are wrong, or how I am misinterpreting them. I have provided a link to every single one I have cited, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Cite me some academic sources that demonstrate that the buildings carved out of rock at Madain Saleh were carved by the Thamud before the time of Moses, or better yet, that the Thamud carved homes out of rock to begin with.

Go ahead.


Originally posted by quintessential


In any case what I was saying to Naba was simply that whenever you have one person that believes in Tauhid and you have another that believes in Trinity the only discussion that should take place is one about trying to dispel trinity from his mind, if you can't succeed in that then the two should respectfully go in peace away from each other until the final day when all arguments are settled.....that is my understanding of the Sunnah of Dawa. Naba has already cited the verse in the Quran. There is a veil over some people that they will never see through. Accept that and move on.

There is no way you can dispel the Trinity from my mind, because the Trinity is the nature of the one God. I am, however, willing to hear and discuss your opposition to it, respectfully.

In spite of your words about the veil that is allegedly over some people, you have been unable to disprove that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr were made by the Nabataeans between 200 BC and AD 200 and not the Thamud from the time before Moses; or prove that the Thamud carved buildings out of rock at Madain Saleh.

There is an obvious mistake in both the Quran and hadith about the buildings at Al Hijr.


It does not matter if you think it would be farfetched or not. You're opinion is not important when it comes to cold hard facts. The fact here is that it is POSSIBLE for Allah to have done that. Even you cannot deny the fact that Allah is more than capable of such. If he can create the heavens and the earth this would certainly be no feat for him. Now that we have agreed that it is POSSIBLE for Allah to have done this. Do you see the huge gaping error in the logic you applied in making your comments?  There are MANY scenarios that could have occurred to account for what you deem an "error". As has been said above in this thread by others, its more or less common knowledge in this thread now that you only accept that one scenario presented by you as fact because that is your agenda.

You pretend like you're here to discuss and debate but really you're just here to push an agenda. Forget the numerous rebuttals that have been presented to you. If you really wanted to debate you would first and foremost be discussing the Tauhid vs Trinity issue before anything else because that is waaaaaay more important. Surely the fate of one's soul is the most important thing to anyone. Any Muslim will tell you if you died today believing in the trinity (a.k.a shirk), its game over. Hell for eternity. If you really wanted to debate that's what you would be debating first, but like I said in my first post months ago...... you're not here for that, though you won't admit you're here to push an agenda.

Well, that's my assessment. I'll let everyone draw their own.

Salaam Alaikum, Quintessential

Based on your logic, it is impossible to prove any religion or belief system wrong. Since God can do anything, it is impossible to disprove the claim of any person or religious text that claims to be written by Him.

Therefore it is impossible to disprove anything either in the Quran, Bible, Book of Mormon, Bahaii texts, the Sikh Granth or any other book. All that has to be said is that God can do anything. We can even claim that the Thamud built the Pentagon, and God just made it look like it was built in the 20th century by the Americans! Why not!

If that is the way you approach theology, fine.

I look at the evidence, and present my sources. The only poster in this discussion so far who has done that is NABA, though he did not cite them. His sources for the most part do not say what he wants them to say, but at least he did this. Neither you or Abu Loren have done this.

I have responded to comments that people made to me about the Trinity, my discussions on the topic with NABA are an example of that. Whenever he brought it up, I responded.


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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2013 at 9:31am
Originally posted by NABA

That's not an answer to my Question, my Question was can satan demons can write those peaceful verses?????

Salaam Alaikum. Of course they can.

I can write peaceful verses if I want also. That doesn't mean I am God. There are peaceful verses in the Book of Mormon also. This does not mean God is its author.


Edited by TG12345 - 02 November 2013 at 9:34am
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2013 at 10:24pm
But the basic purpose of satan and demon is to promote unrest,Allah created satan because of a bad quality i.e arrogance in ch 7 v 13.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2013 at 4:22am
Originally posted by NABA

But the basic purpose of satan and demon is to promote unrest,Allah created satan because of a bad quality i.e arrogance in ch 7 v 13.

I agree that Satan's main purpose is to create rebellion and unrest against God. Satan according to the Bible is a fallen angel who once used to serve God, but then turned against Him. Satan's eternal fate is helfire.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2013 at 8:51am
Originally posted by NABA

But the basic purpose of satan and demon is to promote unrest,Allah created satan because of a bad quality i.e arrogance in ch 7 v 13.

Greetings NABA,
but you don't think the qur'an has created a great deal of unrest?
by all it's different ways of interpretation and conflicting messages?
Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 04 November 2013 at 8:52am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2013 at 11:16pm
No because we humans have ourselves degraded, Allah regards human beings as best creation in ch 41 v 53, but unfortunately but because of distance from Quran mankind values are at lowest, eg Allah says don't liveharshly with women Iin ch 4 v19, Allah says b good to parents in ch 17 v 23-24, Allah says give up demands of interest in ch 2 v 278-279, interest iis the biggest reason for rich becoming richer, poor becoming poorer, etc.I want to ask u according to u what is the opinion of a person who follows the above mentioned commandments, so how Quran can cause unrest.
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