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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2013 at 11:36pm
Y wud demons and Satan would write verse for eg ch 4 v 19-don't live harshly with women, ch 17 v 23-24-b good to parents, concept of God ch 112 v 1-4-Say Allah is one, he is eternal, he is neither born nor give birth, there is nothing like him.y wud angels say we had provided angels in front and behind in ch 13 v 11, means to say that I provided me in front and behind u, u know what I mean???therefore brother Quran is the word of God.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2013 at 3:26am
Originally posted by TG12345



We actually do know when the area was occupied by the Nabataeans, and when it was occupied by the people prior to them (Lihyanites, Thamud, others). We also know who carved buildings out of rock at Al Hijr. It was the Nabataeans. The Thamud did not. Muslim as well as non-Muslim archaeologists and scholars have been able to date the structures at Al Hijr, and to discover who lived there and when.Their findings clearly show that the Quran's account is false. So you choose to ignore them.


Your logic, reasoning and intellect was flawed from the beginning when you started this thread. First of all, the people of Thamud are unkown outside of the Qur'an and Islam so this would not be a subject matter for study outside of Islam. Secondly, we are told by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala that the people were completely destroyed, there were no traces of them left except the buildings they built.

Now you can talk about the Nabataeans all you want until the cows come home but it doesn't make you right. That is because you yourself has stated that they occupied the land c300 BC to c200 Ad or thereabouts, so again the people of Thamud were destroyed a long time before the Nabataeans were even alive. So your arguement just doesn't make any sense. Sure I can believe that a group of people lived there at the time frame that you mentioned but that doesn't mean that they build those buildings nor carved out the artwork there.

In fact all of your arguments on this forum are flawed because we given you answers to your questions but you are so focused on proving the Qur'an wrong that you have become blind. It proves the Qur'an that people like you have been under a veil and you cannot see the truth. The answers we gave are, for example, the honey bee eating all the fruits. Of course the bees wouldn't eat fruits that are poisonous that is just ridiculous. Similarly some fruits are mentioned in the Qur'an such as dates, olives, pomegranates etc does that mean we are only allowed to eat only those fruits? Of course not. Then your question regarding the barrier between the salt water and the fresh water, if you could just google this then you will get a photo of where the salt water meets the fresh water and there is a clear barrier you can see.

It seems obvious to me that you lack simple common sense (not meant to be insulting but a fact).
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2013 at 5:27am
Originally posted by NABA

Y wud demons and Satan would write verse for eg ch 4 v 19-don't live harshly with women, ch 17 v 23-24-b good to parents, concept of God ch 112 v 1-4-Say Allah is one, he is eternal, he is neither born nor give birth, there is nothing like him.y wud angels say we had provided angels in front and behind in ch 13 v 11, means to say that I provided me in front and behind u, u know what I mean???therefore brother Quran is the word of God.

As I have demonstrated, there are also similar, noble teachings in the Mormon religion. Does that mean it came from God?
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2013 at 11:43pm
That's not an answer to my Question, my Question was can satan demons can write those peaceful verses?????
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Quote quintessential Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2013 at 7:23am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by quintessential

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by quintessential

Salamaleykum
That's just what it has to be I'm afraid.
If the both of you cannot agree on the very nature of Allah, how do you expect to agree on anything else?

Salamaleykum brother

Greetings Salamaleykum,

But you have joined the discussion late... this thread is about the errors made in the qur'an about the Thamud.

Salaam,
Caringheart



Salamaleykum

Im not so late.I made a response earlier, maybe about a month ago refuting these claims. Anyone with common sense can cite reasons to dispel them.
My favorite of which being:
 suppose Allah with all his might decided to remove the Nabeathian homes and  reconstruct the homes of the Thamud when the prophet and his troop where passing by specifically for the hadith to be recorded, and  then deconstruct the homes of the Thamud and reconstruct the Nabaethian homes when the troop had passed. He is Allah he can do anything.

Salaam Alaikum.

True, you did respond, and I responded to your response.

I think the idea of God replacing the Nabataean tombs with the 'homes' of the Thamud during Muhammad's journey and then making them back into the 'homes' of the Thamud is pretty far fetched. It would be like Him purposefully bringing the world to an end in 1975 just to prove the Jehovah's Witnesses were right.

Even if this were to have happened, it still wouldn't make up for the mistake in the Quran, which describes the homes of the Thamud in the present form.

So those are their houses, desolate* because of the wrong they had done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know.
Surat An-Naml [27:52] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
* according to Corpus Quran, the word is "ruined".

Tafsir Ibn Abbas explains this verse in this way:

(See, yonder are their dwellings empty and in ruins because they did wrong) because of their idolatry. (Lo! Herein) in that which We did to them (is indeed a portent) a sign and an admonition (for a people who have knowledge) who believe in that which was done to them.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=27&tAyahNo=52&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Was the Quran addressed only to people in the 7th century, or to humanity?

Originally posted by quintessential


But honestly the most likely reason is:
The guy who is making this claim is purposefully misinterpreting and concocting a vain theory to suit his needs.

Please show me how my sources are wrong, or how I am misinterpreting them. I have provided a link to every single one I have cited, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Cite me some academic sources that demonstrate that the buildings carved out of rock at Madain Saleh were carved by the Thamud before the time of Moses, or better yet, that the Thamud carved homes out of rock to begin with.

Go ahead.


Originally posted by quintessential


In any case what I was saying to Naba was simply that whenever you have one person that believes in Tauhid and you have another that believes in Trinity the only discussion that should take place is one about trying to dispel trinity from his mind, if you can't succeed in that then the two should respectfully go in peace away from each other until the final day when all arguments are settled.....that is my understanding of the Sunnah of Dawa. Naba has already cited the verse in the Quran. There is a veil over some people that they will never see through. Accept that and move on.

There is no way you can dispel the Trinity from my mind, because the Trinity is the nature of the one God. I am, however, willing to hear and discuss your opposition to it, respectfully.

In spite of your words about the veil that is allegedly over some people, you have been unable to disprove that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr were made by the Nabataeans between 200 BC and AD 200 and not the Thamud from the time before Moses; or prove that the Thamud carved buildings out of rock at Madain Saleh.

There is an obvious mistake in both the Quran and hadith about the buildings at Al Hijr.


It does not matter if you think it would be farfetched or not. You're opinion is not important when it comes to cold hard facts. The fact here is that it is POSSIBLE for Allah to have done that. Even you cannot deny the fact that Allah is more than capable of such. If he can create the heavens and the earth this would certainly be no feat for him. Now that we have agreed that it is POSSIBLE for Allah to have done this. Do you see the huge gaping error in the logic you applied in making your comments?  There are MANY scenarios that could have occurred to account for what you deem an "error". As has been said above in this thread by others, its more or less common knowledge in this thread now that you only accept that one scenario presented by you as fact because that is your agenda.

You pretend like you're here to discuss and debate but really you're just here to push an agenda. Forget the numerous rebuttals that have been presented to you. If you really wanted to debate you would first and foremost be discussing the Tauhid vs Trinity issue before anything else because that is waaaaaay more important. Surely the fate of one's soul is the most important thing to anyone. Any Muslim will tell you if you died today believing in the trinity (a.k.a shirk), its game over. Hell for eternity. If you really wanted to debate that's what you would be debating first, but like I said in my first post months ago...... you're not here for that, though you won't admit you're here to push an agenda.

Well, that's my assessment. I'll let everyone draw their own.


Edited by quintessential - 29 October 2013 at 8:43am
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2013 at 7:27am
TG12345 if you think the Qur'an was written by satan why don't you state it clearly instead of beating around the bush?

If you think the Qur'an was writen by the devil then that is so amazing because satan is warning us about himself. The Qur'an states so many times that satan is a clear enemy to man, if satan did write the Qur'an as you accuse then satan os not very intelligent my friend.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2013 at 2:25pm
Regarding earlier comments....

Satan is the great deceiver...
the one who will present himself as something he is not...
misleading by seeming to present truth, when in actuality denying it.

Salaam.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2013 at 8:04pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA and Abu Loren and Quintessential. I am going to be away from the forum for a few days. Thank you for your posts, I will reply to them next week or later this week, inshAllah.
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