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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by NABA

read the commentary of John 10 29-30,father n I R one means that Jesus(pbuh) was saying in terms of love,care,it does not confer to deity which means divine status,visit biblegateway.com and read commentary of this verse.

Please post a link to this commentary. As you do this, I will post links to some other Christian commentaries of this verse.

I and my Father are one - If Jesus Christ were not God, could he have said these words without being guilty of blasphemy? It is worthy of remark that Christ does not say, I and My Father, which my our translation very improperly supplies, and which in this place would have conveyed a widely different meaning: for then it would imply that the human nature of Christ, of which alone, I conceive, God is ever said to be the Father in Scripture, was equal to the Most High: but he says, speaking then as God over all, I and The Father, εγω και ὁ πατηρ ἑν εσμεν - the Creator of all things, the Judge of all men, the Father of the spirits of all flesh - are One, One in nature, One in all the attributes of Godhead, and One in all the operations of those attributes: and so it is evident the Jews understood him. See John 17:11, John 17:22.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/10-30.htm

If stating that Jesus and the Father are one was no more than a reference to love and care, then tell me:

Did Muhammad ever state that he and Allah are one?

Originally posted by NABA


u quote me any statement that majeed khan said Qur'an contains error,

Show me a surah or ayat that states "Hinduism is wrong". You won't be able to find one, but from what the Quran says it is evident that Hinduism is a false religion according to Islam... and to Christianity, for that matter.

Likewise, you won't find a statement by Majeed Khan or any other archaologist saying "the Quran is wrong"... but their findings clearly reflect it.
Originally posted by NABA


I have shown U the appendix of m Yusuf Ali about kneeling place of camel.

You have. What you have not shown is any scientific or archaeological evidence to support this claim. Yusuf Ali did not have a historical degree, and he presents no evidence in his appendix to demonstrate that the rock formation was indeed the kneeling place of a camel.

If I held up a piece of wood and said it was from the cross that Jesus was crucified on, would you believe me, or demand that I present evidence to back up my claim?

Originally posted by NABA


Allah says in ch 39 v 41-truth is in front of U accept it and b successful or either reject it and get astray.

The truth is indeed in front of us. Through His creation, God shows us that there is no forbidden barrier between salty and sweet water. The findings at Al Hijr show us that the buildings were made by the Nabataeans between 200 BC and AD 200, not by the Thamud before the time of Moses. The existence of fruit that bees do not have access to shows us that God did not tell them to eat of all fruit, because He was not ignorant of His creation.

If you look at the truth in front of you, you will notice that the Quran is not the work of God.

God created you, and He loves you. He loves you so much that He sent you prophets, and finally came down in the form of Jesus Christ and suffered for you on the cross.

Put your faith in Him, not the Quran.
Originally posted by NABA


even ur own christian scholars are not supporting trinity concept.

Please show me which ones you are referring to.
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 21 September 2013 at 7:16am
at biblegateway.com the meaning of the verses are given by scholars only,in Qur'an it is mentioned in ch 3 v 19-Islam is the only religion in the sight of Allah,ch 3 v 85-no religion is acceptable to Allah besides Islam,Allah says in ch 5 v 4-on this day I complete deen for U and chose Islam as your religion and no further additions to b made to this religion,so there is no question of existence of another religion,religion being FALSE or TRUE is another thing.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2013 at 4:57am
Salaam Alaikum.
Originally posted by NABA

at biblegateway.com the meaning of the verses are given by scholars only,

Please give me the actual link.
Originally posted by NABA


in Qur'an it is mentioned in ch 3 v 19-Islam is the only religion in the sight of Allah,ch 3 v 85-no religion is acceptable to Allah besides Islam,Allah says in ch 5 v 4-on this day I complete deen for U and chose Islam as your religion and no further additions to b made to this religion,so there is no question of existence of another religion,religion being FALSE or TRUE is another thing.

OK, so there is no surah that says "Hinduism is false" but based on everything else in the Quran, you come to that conclusion, yes?
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2013 at 9:36am
Yes, because Allah says only Islam so there is no question of another religion, we r ummat of last messenger Prophet Muhammad S.A.W (pbuh) and we have to follow Last revelation of Allah I.e Quran till the last day.
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2013 at 12:44am
Our first purpose in life...is to know God, to love him and finally to be happy with him in the next life...in other words heaven..
It is sad to see that most people rely on the religion of their ancestors and continue to practise it even though we can know that there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
Islam Professes Allah as the true God, Christianity the HOLY TRINITY(three persons,ONE GOD) and in Hinduism we have a pantheon of Gods.
Following the logical line of thought since there is only one true God, Hinduism would be rejected because of the variety of Gods and Goddesses that exist therein.
Which leaves us with Islam and Christianity....
We could debate using the Quran and the Bible as starting points, but it would be futile because each would find ways to discredit the other.
The only way I believe to settle this matter is to see the works of God as defined by these two religions.
It is only GOD who can heal and raise from the dead.
Day in and day out we continue to see the healing power of the Christian God in prayer meetings throughout the world. Just do a search on youtube and you will find INSTANT healing by people using just the name of JESUS.
You just cannot find something similar in Islam,

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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2013 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by NABA

Yes, because Allah says only Islam so there is no question of another religion, we r ummat of last messenger Prophet Muhammad S.A.W (pbuh) and we have to follow Last revelation of Allah I.e Quran till the last day.

Salaam Alaikum, and sorry for not responding for so long.

You have proven that the Quran's words mean that Hinduism is false, because the although the there is no verse that says "Hinduism is false", there are other verses that state that no religion except Islam is true and will be accepted in the hereafter.

I am using the same logic to show you that the findings of Majeed Khan and other archaeologists prove the Quran's story of the Thamud to be false. Although there is no statement by Majeed Khan or other archaeologists saying "the Quran is wrong", their findings that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr were made by the Nabataeans prove that the Thamud are not the ones who made them... and therefore, prove that the Quran's statement on this issue is false.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2013 at 7:40am
I think this is the 15th or 16th time I will repeat the fact that 100 yrs from now at my house place a mall will b constructed and from there on 100 yrs findings will show that mall was there my home was not does that mean I never existed moreover whenever u talk about al hijr topic also mention about kneeling place of camel and its well, at bronaz I m a medical student I m the person to witness miracles of Allah almost everyday its Allah who does all miracles.for eg my relative was diagnosed with leukaemia while she was pregnant but Alhamdulillah now she is fine 8 yrs after, who could this such miracle its Allah, remember even a leaf can't fall without the permission of Allah (ch 6 v 59), talking about all religions every religion propogates oneness of Allah even in scriptures of Hinduism i.e in Vedas inyajurved ch 32 v 3-there is no picture of God, in bhagwad geeta ch 7 v 20-they are entering darkness when they worship besides God, but irrespective of what other scriptures say we have to follow last revelation i.e Quran and prophet Muhammad S.A.W (pbuh) is our last prophet.even in christianity I have quoted verses to tg12345 showing him that Jesus (pbuh) propogated oneness of Allah.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2013 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by NABA

I think this is the 15th or 16th time I will repeat the fact that 100 yrs from now at my house place a mall will b constructed and from there on 100 yrs findings will show that mall was there my home was not does that mean I never existed

I lost count too, of the times you tried to accuse me of saying something I did not say.

I didn't say that the Thamud did not live at Al Hijr.

I didn't say that they never existed.

I said that they did not carve out buildings out of stone. The Nabataeans were the ones who did that. The Quran's author mistakenly attributed their tombs and temples to houses built by the Thamud before Moses.

Please don't accuse me of making arguments that I am not making.

Originally posted by NABA


 moreover whenever u talk about al hijr topic also mention about kneeling place of camel

Again, please show me archaeological evidence that this rock formation was made during the time of Saleh, or any other information that corroborates the story in the Quran. Yusuf Ali stated Aswad said that it was the kneeling place of the she-camel.

How did he prove this? What reasons did he provide for his statement?

-"Mr C M Doughty travelled in North western Arabia and Najd in 1880's,in his book Arabia deserta daughty describes his first view of Madina Saleh,approaching from north west-"At length in dim morning twilight,as we journeyed we come to a sandy brow and straight descending place between cliffs of sandstones.there was some shouting in forward and Aswad told me to look up and said that this was a famous place(Mabrak An Naqa),which was the kneeling place of she camel of Prophet Salih(pbuh),it is short at first steep and issues upon the plain of Al Hijra,Daughty took rubbings of some of inscriptions which were accessible to him and they were studied by great Semitic scholar Ernest Renan and published by Academic des inscriptions et belle letters.Sculpture and architecture are found to b of same kind of nabaeteans monuments at Petra,in Petra there R no dated inscriptions but at madina saleh are several,kneeling place and well of she camel plus no of local inscriptions keep alive the race memory of Thamud and Prophet Salih(pbuh).

Originally posted by NABA


 and its well,

As I have demonstrated, the wells at Madain Saleh were carved out of rock, by the Nabataeans.

The Nabataeans greatest accomplishment was probably their system of water management. They developed a system to collect rainwater using water channels, pipes, and underground cisterns. Added to this, they developed very strong, waterproof cement, some of which is still in existence to this day.

They also developed sophisticated ceramic pipelines and reservoirs using gravity feeds (siphons or inverted siphons), that served the developing urban centers. Outside of the cities, dams closed off wadis to collect water during the rainy season, while stone circles or terraces retarded runoff from slopes and trapped valuable topsoil so that their irrigation lines could feed crops.

The Nabataeans were experts at collecting water and storing it in underground cisterns. All along their caravan routes, secret water collection systems collected water and stored it for later use. The ancient historian Diodorus noted: "For in the waterless region, as it is called, they have dug wells at convenient intervals and have kept the knowledge of them from people of all other nations, and so they retreat in a body into this region out of danger. For since they themselves know about the places of hidden water and open them up, they have for their use drinking water in abundance." (II.48.2)

Diodorus also noted in another place: "They take refuge in the desert using this as a fortress; for it lacks water and cannot be crossed by others, but to them alone, since they have prepared subterranean reservoirs lined with stucco, it furnishes safety. As the earth in some places is clayey and in others is of soft stone, they make great excavations in it, the mouths of which they make very small, but by constantly increasing the width as they dig deeper, they finally make them of such size that each side has a length of about 100 feet. After filling these reservoirs with rain water, they close the openings, making them even with the rest of the ground, and they leave signs that are known to themselves but are unrecognizable to others. They water their flocks every other day, so that, if they flee, or wander through waterless places, they may not need a continuous supply of water." (XIX.94.6-9)

The Nabataeans perfected the art of creating a perfect cube cistern, with corners that formed perfect right angles. They sometimes added perfectly made stone support pillars with accurately spaced, combed, oblique stone dressing. Onto this prepared surface, they plastered cement composed of water-resistant plaster of unmatched quality. Archeologists feel that this must have taken them hundreds of years to develop and perfect.

http://nabataea.net/water.html


Originally, the Nabataeans were a group of Arab tribes whose economy was based on pastoralism. Little by little, however, they settled, developed several cities and became traders. They also became experts in the art of collecting rain and spring water, which was then stored for use during the dry season, in large, deep cisterns.

http://www.islamicurbanheritage.org.sa/english/MadanSaleh.aspx


Originally posted by NABA


 at bronaz I m a medical student I m the person to witness miracles of Allah almost everyday its Allah who does all miracles.for eg my relative was diagnosed with leukaemia while she was pregnant but Alhamdulillah now she is fine 8 yrs after, who could this such miracle its Allah, remember even a leaf can't fall without the permission of Allah (ch 6 v 59), talking about all religions every religion propogates oneness of Allah even in scriptures of Hinduism i.e in Vedas inyajurved ch 32 v 3-there is no picture of God, in bhagwad geeta ch 7 v 20-they are entering darkness when they worship besides God, but irrespective of what other scriptures say we have to follow last revelation i.e Quran and prophet Muhammad S.A.W (pbuh) is our last prophet.even in christianity I have quoted verses to tg12345 showing him that Jesus (pbuh) propogated oneness of Allah.

I know you directed this at Bronaz, but I would like to respond.

I am glad to hear your relative is well, all praise to Allah for protecting her.

Allah is indeed one- He is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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