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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Error in Quran and hadiths about Thamud Post Reply Post New Topic
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:09am
Yes U R right about the fact that during Prophet Muhammad(pbuh),there were no facilities for extraction of honey,because during the time verses from Qur'an were revealing at that time,now I m presenting to U the appendix of Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of Qur'an regarding Thamud and what he researched about them,here are his words-"Mr C M Doughty travelled in North western Arabia and Najd in 1880's,in his book Arabia deserta daughty describes his first view of Madina Saleh,approaching from north west-"At length in dim morning twilight,as we journeyed we come to a sandy brow and straight descending place between cliffs of sandstones.there was some shouting in forward and Aswad told me to look up and said that this was a famous place(Mabrak An Naqa),which was the kneeling place of she camel of Prophet Salih(pbuh),it is short at first steep and issues upon the plain of Al Hijra,Daughty took rubbings of some of inscriptions which were accessible to him and they were studied by great Semitic scholar Ernest Renan and published by Academic des inscriptions et belle letters.Sculpture and architecture are found to b of same kind of nabaeteans monuments at Petra,in Petra there R no dated inscriptions but at madina saleh are several,kneeling place and well of she camel plus no of local inscriptions keep alive the race memory of Thamud and Prophet Salih(pbuh).
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2013 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by NABA

Yes U R right about the fact that during Prophet Muhammad(pbuh),there were no facilities for extraction of honey,because during the time verses from Qur'an were revealing at that time,

Then people were in an even greater danger if they took honey from bees. They had no way of knowing what the bees ate. If they followed what the Quran says and ate honey to get healed and the bees took it from pollen of certain plants, they could get very sick!
Originally posted by NABA


now I m presenting to U the appendix of Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of Qur'an regarding Thamud and what he researched about them,here are his words-"Mr C M Doughty travelled in North western Arabia and Najd in 1880's,in his book Arabia deserta daughty describes his first view of Madina Saleh,approaching from north west-"At length in dim morning twilight,as we journeyed we come to a sandy brow and straight descending place between cliffs of sandstones.there was some shouting in forward and Aswad told me to look up and said that this was a famous place(Mabrak An Naqa),which was the kneeling place of she camel of Prophet Salih(pbuh),it is short at first steep and issues upon the plain of Al Hijra,Daughty took rubbings of some of inscriptions which were accessible to him and they were studied by great Semitic scholar Ernest Renan and published by Academic des inscriptions et belle letters.Sculpture and architecture are found to b of same kind of nabaeteans monuments at Petra,in Petra there R no dated inscriptions but at madina saleh are several,kneeling place and well of she camel plus no of local inscriptions keep alive the race memory of Thamud and Prophet Salih(pbuh).

Interesting. This statement says that:


The general result of these studies may be summarized. The sculpture and architecture are found to be of the same kind asthe Nabataean monuments at Petra (for which see note 1043 to 7:73).

So even Yusuf Ali admits that the buildings at Madain Saleh were built by the Nabataeans.

Yusuf Ali is wrong in saying there are no local inscriptions keeping alive the memory of the Thamud, since archaeologists from UNESCO and the Islamic Urban Heritage Conference mention they did leave behind them some rock art.

Remember though what the Quran says... that the buildings carved out of rock at Al Hijr were made by them, and that Muhammad came across them and told his men to enter them weepingly. There is no evidence to indicate that the buildings at Al Hijr are homes made by the Thamud, and all evidence to indicate that they
were in fact tombs built by the Nabataeans around a milennium after the events
described in the Quran allegedly took place.

 Also, Yusuf Ali has no historical education, only a religious one. This is in contrast to the archaeologists... Muslim and non-Muslim... who dated the tombs at Madain Saleh and concluded they were built by the Nabataeans, long after Moses and even longer after Salih.





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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:20pm
Here is the UNESCO description of Madain Saleh and the buildings found in that city.


Outstanding Universal Value

The archaeological site of Al-Hijr is a major site of the Nabataean civilisation, in the south of its zone of influence. Its integrity is remarkable and it is well conserved. It includes a major ensemble of tombs and monuments, whose architecture and decorations are directly cut into the sandstone.

It bears witness to the encounter between a variety of decorative and architectural influences (Assyrian, Egyptian, Phoenician, Hellenistic), and the epigraphic presence of several ancient languages (Lihyanite, Talmudic, Nabataean, Greek, Latin).

It bears witness to the development of Nabataean agricultural techniques using a large number of artificial wells in rocky ground. The wells are still in use.

The ancient city of Hegra/Al-Hijr bears witness to the international caravan trade during late Antiquity.

Criterion (ii): The site of Al-Hijr is located at a meeting point between various civilisations of late Antiquity, on a trade route between the Arabian Peninsula, the Mediterranean world and Asia. It bears outstanding witness to important cultural exchanges in architecture, decoration, language use and the caravan trade. Although the Nabataean city was abandoned during the pre-Islamic period, the route continued to play its international role for caravans and then for the pilgrimage to Mecca, up to its modernisation by the construction of the railway at the start of the 20th century.

Criterion (iii): The site of Al-Hijr bears unique testimony to the Nabataean civilisation, between the 2nd and 3rd centuries BC and the pre-Islamic period, and particularly in the 1st century AD. It is an outstanding illustration of the architectural style specific to the Nabataeans, consisting of monuments directly cut into the rock, and with facades bearing a large number of decorative motifs. The site includes a set of wells, most of which were sunk into the rock, demonstrating the Nabataeans' mastery of hydraulic techniques for agricultural purposes.

The testimony borne by Al-Hijr to the Nabataean civilisation is of outstanding integrity and authenticity, because of its early abandonment and the benefit over a very long period of highly favourable climatic conditions.

The State Party has begun to set up an extremely comprehensive Local Management Unit, and this process is now under way. The announced management plan should enable satisfactory protection of the property. With this in mind, the plan should organise systematic monitoring of the conservation of the site, and prepare a project for the presentation of the Outstanding Universal Value of the property for the benefit both of visitors and of the population of the region.


http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1293


We see that at Al Hijr, the Thamud left epigraphs. The Nabataeans left buildings.

The Quran's author made a mistake.


Edited by TG12345 - 03 September 2013 at 7:21pm
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2013 at 7:29am
U admit that Allah cause calamity to thamud???for ur sake lets believe that All structures made by thamud R destroyed its a chance that nabaeteans have created structures after them,moreover U have never mentioned about kneeling place n well of she camel which is still present today,i believe 100% that structures were made by Thamud.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2013 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by NABA

U admit that Allah cause calamity to thamud???

Where did I say that?
Originally posted by NABA


for ur sake lets believe that All structures made by thamud R destroyed its a chance that nabaeteans have created structures after them,

If the structures made by the Thamud were destroyed and the Nabataeans built over them, it would mean that the Quran is wrong in describing the houses of the Thamud as still standing.
Originally posted by NABA


moreover U have never mentioned about kneeling place n well of she camel which is still present today,

The Quran does not mention that the kneeling place of the camel still exists, unlike the houses of the Thamud. We know the Quran is wrong regarding the houses of the Thamud. The buildings carved out of rock at Madain Saleh are not houses of the Thamud, but tombs of the Nabataeans, built approximately 1,000 years after the events mentioned in the Quran.

What archaeological or scientific proof do we have that the kneeling place of the camel was formed during the time of the Thamud and Saleh? What if it was formed before or later?

We have dating of the tombs of at Madain Saleh... and it proves the Quran and hadiths wrong. Do we have dating of where the she-camel allegedly knelt? Please show it to me if you do.

Originally posted by NABA


i believe 100% that structures were made by Thamud.

Well, archaeology makes it 100% clear that they were made by the Nabataeans. Science also makes it 100% clear that there is no forbidden barrier between salty and non-salty water.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2013 at 4:19am
Watch the video truth uncut in which scientist dr William hay said that this Quran had come from a divine being, in other words he is accepting Quran is from Allah which is TRUE!!!!!!!!! Allah did cause calamity to Thamud didn't i show u the verse 68 from ch 11??
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2013 at 4:23am
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.
Originally posted by NABA

Watch the video truth uncut in which scientist dr William hay said that this Quran had come from a divine being, in other words he is accepting Quran is from Allah which is TRUE!!!!!!!!!

Please provide me with a link to the video. Better yet, tell me his reasons for stating such a thing.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah did cause calamity to Thamud didn't i show u the verse 68 from ch 11??

This is what 68:11 says:

[And] scorner, going about with malicious gossip -

What does this have to do with the Thamud?

The Quran does state that God destroyed the Thamud. It also states that they carved their homes out of rock, and their homes can be seen at Al Hijr.

We know that the "homes" in Al Hijr are in fact tombs that were carved out by the Nabataeans about 1,000 years after the events described in the Quran allegedly took place.

The Quran made a very obvious historical error.



Edited by TG12345 - 06 September 2013 at 4:32am
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2013 at 7:20am
I said U to read ch 11 v 68 U did vice versa.
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