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Interfaith Dialogue
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Usmani
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2013 at 12:21pm
Dear Bronaz,

God send his messages for the mankind according to their level of understanding, so we can better understand it. He has all the power to fulfill His wills and He can send the peoples to hell who believe in Him and always try to follow way of His desire and vice versa, who is there to stop Him from doing so. Having said that come to the verse 14:4, here God saying that He send message on their own language so they can better understand it and at the end of the verse it is said And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

As we know God through our Prophet (peace and blessing of God upon Him) and through Quran itself so we found that God is very Kind, loving and gave every chance to repent and come to straight path. So if He wills to do anything, there are some reasons of it and which has played a role in developing His wills. We cannot expect God to do unwise things and unjust with anyone.

Quran can only be beneficial for people, those came here for the truth.
Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2013 at 8:33pm
"He has all the power to fulfill His wills and He can send the peoples to hell who believe in Him and always try to follow way of His desire and vice versa, who is there to stop Him from doing so."
So you agree that Allah can send you to hell if he wishes...then why reveal a book such as Quran which is supposed to get you to heaven...
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2013 at 3:44am
When I was a baby,my father can kill me,but he never did so and take care of me always.
 
God can send me to hell but He will not, He will send me to heaven because I belive in Him and try to follow His desires.
Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2013 at 11:37am
The Lord hardens the heart and misguides and misleads as He wishes

by Ibn Anwar


Many a time Christian missionaries accuse Muslims of believing in a God that misguides and misleads men as He wishes. They will then cite certain verses from the Qur'an that at a glance do seem to convey what they're claiming such as the following verse,

"And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise."(14:4)

After citing such a verse from the Qur'an they will lay the claim that they are free of any guilt in their disbelief since Allah has chosen to misguide them from Islam. It's a very sly ploy, but there's a Malay proverb that goes 'sepandai pandai tupai melompat akhirnya jatuh juga' which roughly translates into ?as clever as the squirrel jumps it will still fall'.

Look at the verse very closely. Does it say that men have no power at all to control his own belief and faith? No, it does not say that. What it does say is that Allah has sent a messenger with ?the language of this folk' which is Arabic so that he might make the message clear for them. What that is saying is that the Prophet s.a.w. was sent as a warner to help guide the people in their own language. However, it is not really the Prophet s.a.w. who guides, but it is ultimately Allah. So glory be to Allah who sends guidance.

Tafsir Ma'riful Qur'an says,

"Toward the end of the verse it was said that it is for the convenience of the people that Allah Ta'ala has sent His messengers speaking their language, so that they can explain Hi injunctions clearly and satisfactorily. But, it is still beyond human control to bring someone onto the right path. The truth is that it lies in the power of Allah Ta'ala alone. Whom He wills He lets go astray and whom He wills He would give guidance. He is Mighty, and Wise."(Mufti Shafi' Uthmani, Ma'riful Qur'an. Vol. 5, p. 249)

The verse isn't denying the self ability to recognise guidance and accept it. It is rather affirming God's sovereignty in all things and that everything has to go through His approval and allowance. It is saying that as Muslim missionaries the Prophets were sent to help guide, but in reality Allah is the one who gives guidance and not them. They are only those who convey. Likewise, today's Muslim missionaries are those who convey the message. That is their job. It is not in their job description to make people convert or actually put guidance into their hearts, but simply to convey and invite them to the truth(Surah Al-Nahl, 125). If the non-Muslim chooses to believe by His own accord then Allah will send His guidance, but if he refuses then misguidance will follow. Thus the Qur'an elsewhere states,

"Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!"(18:29)

See also 25:57, 80:11-12 and 73:19. These and other such verses clearly tell us that the individual has the choice and will to believe or disbelieve and Allah will be there to supply either belief or disbelief as He wishes.

In addition, I find it rather crude that Christians have the audacity to attempt to debase Islam from the aforementioned angle. This is because their own book, the Bible(s) is replete with verses that show that God misguides, deceives, hardens the heart of people as well as create good and evil as He sees fit.


God hardens the heart of people and blinds them so that they will not harken and do mistakes.

"The LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."(Exodus 4:21)

"But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt."(Exodus 7:3)

"But the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, and he would not let them go."(Exodus 10:27)

"Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land."(Exodus 11:10)

What happened to Pharoah in the end? He got drowned by Moses' miracle. Shall we then conclude that God's hardening of Pharoah's heart led to his demise? Is God responsible for what happened to Pharoah? Shall we blame God?

"Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear."(Deuteronomy 29:4)

"Make these people close-minded. Plug their ears. Shut their eyes. Otherwise, they may see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their minds, and return and be healed."(Isaiah 6:10)

"Why, O LORD, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage."(Isaiah 63:17)

"This is why they could not believe: Isaiah also said, He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they might not perceive with their eyes, and understand with their mind and turn, and I would heal them." (John 12:39-40)

"As it is written, "To this day God has put them into deep sleep. Their eyes do not see, and their ears do not hear."(Romans 11:8)

 

God deceives and afterwards destroys

"And if the prophet be deceived and speak a word, I, Jehovah, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel." (Ezekiel 14:9)

"For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. Then all who have not believed the truth but have taken pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned." (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

 

God hides things from certain people as it pleases Him.

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, because this is what was pleasing to you." (Matthew 11:25-16)

 

God creates evil/calamity

"Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.' "(Isiah 45:7, Young's Literal Translation)

"Doesn't evil and good come out of the mouth of the Most High?" (Lamentations 3:38,  World English Bible)

"For the one living in Maroth is waiting for good: for evil has come down from the Lord to the doorways of Jerusalem." (Micah 1:12, Bible in Basic English)


What has happened to the lovey-dovey fair and beautiful God who gave His only begotten son that we often hear Christians peddling on every street corner?!? The Christian missionary must think more than twice before charging the Muslim with the accusation that Allah misguides as He wills and using it as an argument against us lest they damn their own faith. And Allah knows best.


http://muslim-responses.com/Yahweh_Misguides/Yahweh_Misguides_







Edited by Rational - 31 May 2013 at 12:22pm
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2013 at 8:08pm
Dear Rational,
Thanks for posting your reply which was from a study by Ibn Anwar. No doubt he is a learned person but still rejects the divinity of Christ and the truth revealed in the Gospel.
While the arguments offered seem seductively simple, I wish to state the following:
At the beginning he says that this verse will be quoted will be quoted by Christian missionaries to state that ALLAH misleads.
"However, it is not really the Prophet s.a.w. who guides, but it is ultimately Allah. So glory be to Allah who sends guidance."
The verse in question states that Allah guides whom he will astray.
Why should one not accept the Quran which you claim to be the word of God literally and depend on someones interpretation to come to any sort of conclusion.
In my opinion the words of the Quran...IF they are the word of God take precedence over any interpretation.
Next we come to the question, who is the one interpreting it...Has he been given any authority to interepret the Quran. If there is no authority, then anyone can say something contradictory and then you would have to accept that as well. I think my Literal interpretation has more value that some one who twists things to get his point across. We see enough of this in the political arena where the same thing is interpreted in many ways and each claims to be right.
The word of God is meant to be taken literally, because that is how God would reveal it, so that there is no ambiguity.
Regarding the verses you quoted from the Bible to elevate your position, it is nothing but grandstanding. You can take quotes from any book and reach any conclusion you want based on how good you are at twisting facts.
The truth of any Holy Book is proven by some of the fruits that have been born out of it.
Christianity still remains the foremost religion of the world, inspite of other religions being promoted by force or other doubtable means. More people have willingly sacrificed their lives for being Christian without offering resistance than from other faiths. The uncorrupt bodies of numerous saints bear testimony that their holy lives, didnt allow their bodies to be corrupted on earth. None of such fruit can be seen from the Quran.
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Quote Bismarck Replybullet Posted: 16 June 2013 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by NABA



In Surah Al Ra'ad ch 13 v 11-Allah does not change the position of those people who themselves don't want to change,from this verse it is truly mentioned we ourselves are responsible for our own deeds,Allah sent those people to astray who themselves don't want to know the truth I.e truth about Islam(submitting the will to Allah).Surah Al Ankaboot ch 29 v 69-if U strive in the way of Allah,Allah will open pathways for U in heaven.yes,Allah has decided about birth and death,as mentioned in Surah Al Mulk ch 67 v 2-Allah has created life and death to test U.


For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron.
Surah 13.11

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So, Allah leads farther astray, those already refusing to obey Allah's Authority; whilst guiding those, who do obey ?
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Quote Bismarck Replybullet Posted: 16 June 2013 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Rational

...
http://muslim-responses.com/Yahweh_Misguides/Yahweh_Misguides_


that seems to be a very scholarly article

For sake of avoiding all hints of hypocrisy, the Muslim-touted Gospel of Barnabas seems to include blatant editings. i would be willing to acknowledge, that Christians' Scriptures include minor modifications, to the degree, of the differences, between the Greek Gospel of Matthew, and the original Hebrew-version, known as the Gospel of the Hebrews. I.e., here and there, a few words changed, to suit "practicality". But the GoB seems to include editings, far more blatant.

i may mis-understand the importance that Muslims attribute to the GoB, for supporting the Islamic opinion, of the Crucifixion. But, i perceive no value, in ever risking any amount of hypocrisy.

Separately, i understand that the Hadith attributed to Ibn Abbas, about the Crucifixion, contradicts the GoB, which portrays the Apostles as initially fooled by the substitution of Judas for Jesus, whereas Ibn Abbas says they all knew, for Jesus openly asked for a volunteer (evidently Judas):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death


Edited by Bismarck - 16 June 2013 at 10:18pm
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2013 at 1:18pm
Surah Al zumar ch 39 v 41-Allah says truth is in front of you, either accept it and b successfull or reject it and b astray, this verse clearly signifies the free will, which means choice in our hands I.e we r responsible for our own situation.Allah will guide to those who obey him.remember life is a test (ch 67 v 2 ) in this test we will b responsible for own fate in the hereafter.
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