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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: The Haj is shirk ? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Experiential
 
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2013 at 10:36pm

Nice pictures Rational. I hope they didnt  glitch the sytem?

However Christians kissing a cross is not one of the fundamental Pillars of our religion.

If Christians try to kiss a cross it is only a cultural thing – nothing more.

 

Unlike Muslims where the Haj is one of the 5 Pillars of Islam and walking around a rock 7 times pointing at it, or trying to kiss it is not just a cultural thing but fundamental to the Muslim religion.

 

Besides I was never discussing kissing as such.

The question I originally posed is whether Islam is associated with the witchcraft of Paganism.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2013 at 10:39pm

Bow ?, kiss ?, worship ?

Lets look at the facts -

  1. Before becoming Muslim, Arabs were pagans.
  2. Before Islam, Mecca was a pagan city.
  3. Before Islam Haj was a pagan pilgrimage.
  4. Pagans worshipped stones, rocks, water springs, etc which were under the influence of Jinn and demons.
  5. Mohamed also respected the pagan Haj and the rock as the  pagans did.
  6. Muslims are now associated with the Jinn and demons associated with the haj and the rock.

It is logical.

I don’t see how Mohamad facilitating an arrangement about a dispute among tribe leaders over a rock has any thing to do with this?

 

Yes I think we agree that the rock is just a rock

Just a meteorite - nothing to do with Adam or the Kaaba being the centre of the universe.

 

Usmani In the case of Jesus Im not sure what you are wanting to know? I already replied to what I thought you were asking earlier. Prove to me from the Bible that Jesus Christ The Messiah is not  The Son of God as you say. Prove to me that He used to pray to God as Muslims of today do pray to God ( bow down head on earth.).

You need to work on it to come closer to the truth.

Maybe you should start a new thread about this?

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2013 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by abuayisha

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25693&PID=176953#176953

See comments....

Salam brother, thanks for letting us know.
Thank you Ubuayisha
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2013 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by Usmani


Thanks Brother Mansoor for your valuable input. Quotation from Psalm 138:2 and the Prophet Muhammad (May God Bless Him) said on the topic in discussion has made things very much clear.

I hope that Experiential will also acknowledge it. Just talking bad about Islam does not make it bad. Every one of us has to face Almighty up there. Before it too late and just remain regret, correct our mistakes and join the truth. This must be the way forward.
Thanks
Only clear in showing that Muslims are desperate to find anything in the Bible to support Mohamads new religion.
Remember Usmai that God will judge on The Last Day.
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Quote submitter Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2013 at 10:17am
Kaaba which consist of several structures; is a House (of prayer) built by Abraham (pbuh) and Ishmael (pbuh). So what does that mean? Its a blessed place for one to offer prayer.

Prior to bowing and prostrating in the the direction of Kaaba. They did so onto the direction of Al-Aqsa (House of Prayer in Jerusalem). Does that mean Muslims worship Al-Aqsa previously and now worshipping Kaaba?

Why would Muslims worship objects that cant even shelter themselves from rain, lol.

~~~~


Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer)." And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"


We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.
(The Noble Quran, 2:144)




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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2013 at 7:16pm
Muslims do realize that there is absolutely zero archeological evidence to support the stories told regarding Abraham and the Ka'aba?
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2013 at 2:08am

Hello Submitter

You say the Kaaba was built by Abraham. Abraham and Ishmael never went Arabia. There is no record of this in the Torah or Injil which are much older than the Quran. This is a Muslim myth that I believe Mohammad used to try and justify the pagan stone of al-Hajaru-l-Aswad to the People of the Book.

 

There is a big difference between the temple in Jerusalem and the Kaaba. Gods Spirit rested on the Temple in Jerusalem. The Kaaba however was nothing but a dirty house of demons, evil spirits and Jinn.

 

I am not saying Muslims worship the Kaaba. What I am saying is that because Muslims bow to a pagan rock that Islam is defiled, tainted and polluted with pagan Jinn.

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Quote submitter Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2013 at 1:09am
Kaabah being house of demons or pagan rock is your opinion and others; as unbelievers. But it is unfair to make such judgement as 'Temple in Jerusalem' too was the house of pagan worshipping in the past.

~~
The tradition of Ishmaelites relying upon well of Zamzam in the city of Mecca is well known among the Jews living in Arabia for centuries.

Rabbi Abraham Ibn Ezra the great Jewish sage identifies the well mentioned by Hagar in Genesis 16:14 with Zimum (or in other versions, Zimzum), "where the Arabs hold an annual festival. This is Zamzam near Mecca.

"Genesis 16:14 "She called the well Be'er Lachai Roi It is between Kadesh and Bered."

This well is located approximately 20m east of the Kaaba (from today'ss measurement) and indeed it was the source of life for both Ishmael and Hagar before.

There is also ancient Samaritan Jews book (Asatir) in 3rd century BC having the tradition that Ishmael (pbuh) and his son built Bakkah several years after the death of Abraham (pbuh).


Edited by submitter - 16 August 2013 at 1:10am
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