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Interfaith Dialogue
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2013 at 12:55am

Usmani said

Yes, there is some things those are similar to pagan practices as they also move around Kaba as Prophet Ismail stay here and built Kaba with his father Abraham (peace and blessing of God upon Him).They recognized God as Allah as we do. Islam has many similarities with Abrahimic faith and with people of the book. This religion (Islam) has been fine tuned by God and made it perfect for the rest of the humanity.

My Reply

Do you believe in Jinn, demons, spirits and false gods? I do and  I believe they still have an influence on your religion. The pagan gods of Mecca have a hold on Islam.

 

Usmani said

Yes I am, when we follow the instruction of doctor he say take this medicine, so do we inquiry about medicine? Once we have thrust on doctor we do not do these foolish things.

My Reply

Do you not have a personal relationship with God? All you have is a text book from a ‘Doctor” that is out of date. This is the kind of blindness that keeps Islam as a primitive and barbaric religion.

 

 

Usmani said

There are hundreds of those stories in Islam by our Prophet (peace and blessing of God upon Him), only a true Prophet can come up with them.

My Reply

What makes you say only a prophet could come up with them. Any good science fiction writer could do that.

Ridiculous and silly stories like Sura 18:85-86 about the sun setting into a muddy pond and in Sura 27:18-19 where Solomon heard ants talk when science has proven ants communicate by smell not sound.

These are all just st**id stories that a child could write. Mohammad made nice stories to keep the pagans and his new converts happy and now ‘modern’ Muslims try to do the same with what they call ‘science’.

 

Usmani said

Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for the mankind. In it are manifest signs (for example), the place of Abraham. The Bible also mentions about the valley of Baca in connection with the pilgrimage. Below is the quote from Psalms 84

1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!

2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.

7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty; listen to me, O God of Jacob.

9 Look upon our shield, O God; look with favor on your anointed one.

10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

12 O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you.

My Reply

No Usmani..

The valley of Baca in Psalm 84 sounding similar to where Mecca is given the name Bakkah in Surah 3:96 but this is nothing but a similarity and a coincidence. Nothing more.

Firstly if you have a good read of Psalm 84 you will see it is talking about God's temple in Jerusalem. Not the pagan house of the Kaaba.

Secondly why on earth would Jews, living in Israel and on their way to Jerusalem, take a huge detour through Mecca?

Thirdly there are other places with similar names. For example. We often find this word in the names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area west of Meroth.

This shows that there are other places with similar names.

This is another attempt for Muslims to desperately find something in the Bible to support the Quran. When in reality no support exists.

 

 

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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2013 at 12:03pm
You said
No Usmani..
The valley of Baca in Psalm 84 sounding similar to where Mecca is given the name Bakkah in Surah 3:96 but this is nothing but a similarity and a coincidence. Nothing more.

Me
You are denying the truth from your own book so how can you will believe the truth of Quran and Islam. I am very regret full of yours approach, where you have negate the truth weather it in Quran or Bible.

What a beautiful words I have seen in Bible, I wish to kiss the hands of the person who wrote it.

God Bless you
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2013 at 12:00am
Originally posted by Usmani

You said
No Usmani..
The valley of Baca in Psalm 84 sounding similar to where Mecca is given the name Bakkah in Surah 3:96 but this is nothing but a similarity and a coincidence. Nothing more.

Me
You are denying the truth from your own book so how can you will believe the truth of Quran and Islam. I am very regret full of yours approach, where you have negate the truth weather it in Quran or Bible.

What a beautiful words I have seen in Bible, I wish to kiss the hands of the person who wrote it.

God Bless you

Please tell me how this was denying the truth ? -

 

Firstly if you have a good read of Psalm 84 you will see it is talking about God's temple in Jerusalem. Not the pagan house of the Kaaba.

Secondly why on earth would Jews, living in Israel and on their way to Jerusalem, take a huge detour through Mecca?

Thirdly there are other places with similar names. For example. We often find this word in the names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area west of Meroth. This shows that there are other places with similar names.

 

Why don’t you prove my argument wrong if it is false.

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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2013 at 2:18am

You said 

Firstly if you have a good read of Psalm 84 you will see it is talking about God's temple in Jerusalem. Not the pagan house of the Kaaba.

 

Me

Firstly the name mention in Psalm 84 is Baca which is the older name of Makkah and not Jerusalem. Secondly even in pre-Islamic era, Kabba was the place where people used to come for pilgrimage from all over the Arab. Jerusalem was a place of importance for Jew and Muslim both but not famous for pilgrimage like Kabba.

 

You

Secondly why on earth would Jews, living in <ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN w:st="on">Israel</ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN> and on their way to Jerusalem, take a huge detour through Mecca?

 

Me

Kabba built by Prophet Ibrahim (Peace be upon Him) Jew were not exist at that time this was the  around 2000BC.He took the journey from where He grew up as a shepherd in the neighborhood of this Hijazi Mountain until he came to confront his ancestor's beliefs, which led to the death sentence pronounced against him; however the miraculously escaped this death and left that area accompanied by his young wife Sarah and his nephew Lot. They headed north following the traders' route and sought shelter at Arapha city (Ar-bah' or Arba2 as inscribed in the Greek Torah). Arapha valley is now a well-known location for it is one of the main holy places that Muslim pilgrims have to visit as part of their annual pilgrimage rituals.

 

You

Thirdly there are other places with similar names. For example. We often find this word in the names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area west of Meroth. This shows that there are other places with similar names.

 

Me

Other places with similar names does not have Kabba built by Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon Him),Arabian history clearly suggesting the actual place of Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon Him) where He grew up and  places of Israelites Prophets (peace be upon them all). Please see the following link for more details. 

http://www.tajdeed.org/attachments/Al_Hijaz_Homeland_of_Abraham.pdf

 

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2013 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Usmani

You said 

Firstly if you have a good read of Psalm 84 you will see it is talking about God's temple in Jerusalem. Not the pagan house of the Kaaba.

 

Me

Firstly the name mention in Psalm 84 is Baca which is the older name of Makkah and not Jerusalem. Secondly even in pre-Islamic era, Kabba was the place where people used to come for pilgrimage from all over the Arab. Jerusalem was a place of importance for Jew and Muslim both but not famous for pilgrimage like Kabba.

 

You

Secondly why on earth would Jews, living in <ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN w:st="on">Israel</ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN> and on their way to Jerusalem, take a huge detour through Mecca?

 

Me

Kabba built by Prophet Ibrahim (Peace be upon Him) Jew were not exist at that time this was the  around 2000BC.He took the journey from where He grew up as a shepherd in the neighborhood of this Hijazi Mountain until he came to confront his ancestor's beliefs, which led to the death sentence pronounced against him; however the miraculously escaped this death and left that area accompanied by his young wife Sarah and his nephew Lot. They headed north following the traders' route and sought shelter at Arapha city (Ar-bah' or Arba2 as inscribed in the Greek Torah). Arapha valley is now a well-known location for it is one of the main holy places that Muslim pilgrims have to visit as part of their annual pilgrimage rituals.

 

You

Thirdly there are other places with similar names. For example. We often find this word in the names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area west of Meroth. This shows that there are other places with similar names.

 

Me

Other places with similar names does not have Kabba built by Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon Him),Arabian history clearly suggesting the actual place of Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon Him) where He grew up and  places of Israelites Prophets (peace be upon them all). Please see the following link for more details. 

http://www.tajdeed.org/attachments/Al_Hijaz_Homeland_of_Abraham.pdf

 

You say the name mentioned in Psalm 84 is Baca which is the older name of Makkah.No, this is not correct. The Torah is clear and detailed. The Jews lived in what is now modern Israel. If you look at Psalm 84 closely you will see they are passing through the Valley of Bacca to get to Jerusalem. At the time that Psalm 84 was written why would the Jews walk from Israel east 1230 kms to Saudi Arabia and then 1230 kms back again to get to Jerusalem. That is ridiculous.

 

You say in the pre-Islamic era Kabba was the place where people used to come for pilgrimage from all over the Arab. Yes, that’s correct. I am aware that in the pre-Islamic era Kabba was the place where people used to come for pilgrimage from all over the Arab. A pilgrimage to a pagan worship site. To worship the same pagan rock idol that Muslims still bow to.

You say Jerusalem was a place of importance for Jews and Muslims. However when Psalm 84 was written Muslims did not exist.

 

The kabba was not build by Prophet Ibrahim. It was built by pagans. There is nothing in the Torah to indicate Ibraham ever went to Saudi Arabia. And the Torah is more reliable than the Quaran or your hadith because it is older. Muslims know the Torah is the word of God and they simply try to add authority to their new religion by telling stories about the Jewish prophets to make their religion look good.

 

You say other places with similar names does not have the Kabba built by Ibrahim. However where Psalm 84 talks about the Valley of Bakka it does not mention the Kabba.

Also – you miss the point. The name Bakka is common. So for you to think it is Mecca is  silly. Bakka is also related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area west of Meroth.

 

I looked at the link you sent. It is a load of garbage. The Torah is detailed and clear where the Jewish people settled. It is what is now modern day Israel.

 

Again  Muslims know Torah is the word of God and will do anything to make it fit into Muslim interpretation and stories. Mohammad did same thing. He made up his own interpretation of Jewish and Christian stories to get the Jews and Christians on his side. Just in the same way he tried to appeal to the pagans by bowing to your rock that you still bow to today.

 

 

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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2013 at 2:44am

You Said

 Again  Muslims know Torah is the word of God and will do anything to make it fit into Muslim interpretation and stories. Mohammad did same thing. He made up his own interpretation of Jewish and Christian stories to get the Jews and Christians on his side.

 

Me

You are just generalizing things and not and have made up your mind that this religion Islam is forged religion without providing any prove of it.

 

Furthermore Christianity of today does not have in a shape where it can convinces any person who is in search of truth. Bible has a lot of contradictions, so many versions of Bible out there which are different from each others. Involve in the Greatest Shirk by believing that Jesus (peace be upon Him) was the son of God eventually made Him God. There are so many other factors but which are already highlighted are enough to understand that this religion is not what it used to be on Prophet Jesus (peace be upon Him) time.For the God who is Just full of wisdom,we expect that a complete,flow less and practicle religion must be out there for human.

 

This is the reasons why Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world.

 

You Said

 Just in the same way he tried to appeal to the pagans by bowing to your rock that you still bow to today.

 

I told you categorically that we Muslims do not bow to any rock but you keep saying that. This is what you are. We are not hiding anything from our religion, everything is open. You can watch Kabba on 24 hours live telecast at TV.

 

Surah 2 verse 2 : This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].

 

 

 

 

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2013 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by Usmani

You Said

 Again  Muslims know Torah is the word of God and will do anything to make it fit into Muslim interpretation and stories. Mohammad did same thing. He made up his own interpretation of Jewish and Christian stories to get the Jews and Christians on his side.

 

Me

You are just generalizing things and not and have made up your mind that this religion Islam is forged religion without providing any prove of it.

 

Furthermore Christianity of today does not have in a shape where it can convinces any person who is in search of truth. Bible has a lot of contradictions, so many versions of Bible out there which are different from each others. Involve in the Greatest Shirk by believing that Jesus (peace be upon Him) was the son of God eventually made Him God. There are so many other factors but which are already highlighted are enough to understand that this religion is not what it used to be on Prophet Jesus (peace be upon Him) time.For the God who is Just full of wisdom,we expect that a complete,flow less and practicle religion must be out there for human.

 

This is the reasons why Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world.

 

You Said

 Just in the same way he tried to appeal to the pagans by bowing to your rock that you still bow to today.

 

I told you categorically that we Muslims do not bow to any rock but you keep saying that. This is what you are. We are not hiding anything from our religion, everything is open. You can watch Kabba on 24 hours live telecast at TV.

 

Surah 2 verse 2 : This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].

 

You say I am generalizing things and have given no proof  ?

The proof enough is that pagans bowed to al-Hajaru-l-Aswad and Muslims bow to al-Hajaru-l-Aswad

Pagans walked around the Kaaba 7 times trying to kiss al-Hajaru-l-Aswad and Muslims walk around the Kaaba 7 times trying to kiss al-Hajaru-l-Aswad.

Pagans used the spring of Zam zam and the hills of Safa and Marwa in their religion and Muslims use the spring of Zam zam and the hills of Safa and Marwa in their religion.

What more proof do you need?

 
Yes there are contradictions in the Bible. So what? The Bible was written by man but inspired by God.

How then do you explain the contradictions and problems in the Quran considering it is supposed to be a ‘miracle’ and ‘divine’ book?

 

As a Muslim you need to take the Bible seriously. This is what your Quaran says about the Bible -

We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun S. 5:46. S. 57:27

He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet." S. 19.30.

 

What do you think Son of God means?

It does not mean God had a wife and then a son (or a daughter).

God ‘The Son’ became man so man (and woman) could become ‘sons of God’. You also can become one with God as a son of God.

Isa was the Messiah and Christ. When you understand that you will understand what ‘Son of God’ means.

 

You say there are many other factors but which are already highlighted are enough to understand that this religion is not what it used to be in Jesus time.

What are they then?

 

You say Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world. Well actually that depends on who you talk to. Looking at the statistics on this site it looks as though Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.

http://www.nairaland.com/799820/fastest-growing-religion-world-christianity

 

 

You say I can watch Kabba on 24 hours live telecast at TV. If I watch Kabba on 24 hours live telecast on  TV I will see what happens. Yes, I will see Muslims 5 times a day bowing to a rock, walking around a rock 7 times pointing to it and trying to kiss it.

Just like the pagans did when they worshipped it.

 

You talk about Surah 2 verse 2. I don’t see how this verse relates to Muslims bowing to a rock.

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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2013 at 3:55am
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  Just in the same way he tried to appeal to the pagans by bowing to your rock that you still bow to today.

 

I told you categorically that we Muslims do not bow to any rock but you keep saying that. This is what you are. We are not hiding anything from our religion, everything is open. You can watch Kabba on 24 hours live telecast at TV.

 

  My Reply

 Read Psalm 138:2
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.

  In the previous Scriptures, all Prophets of GOD Almighty bowed down to Him, the Almighty, in the direction of His Holy Temple or House.  It's all over the Bible and outside the Bible.

 As to worshiping the Kaaba, we absolutely do not worship it.  The Prophet of Islam said that the spilling OF A SINGLE DROP OF BLOOD from a Believer is more dearer to Allah Almighty than the demolishing of the entire Kaaba.  In other words, a single drop of blood from a Muslim Believer is more dearer to Allah Almighty than the entire black cubic building:

 
"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim."

 So it is not something we worship.  It is only a point and a direction that brings us together as one.
 
 
 
 
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