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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: The Haj is shirk ? Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2013 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Usmani

People kisses their children. are they worships them? no way this only show the love they have with their children.


We muslims only worship the creator of this universe.This is the only religion left on earth where shirk is the worst thing to do.

 

 


Jazakallah brother.

Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2013 at 12:42am
Originally posted by nothing

Originally posted by Experiential

Do Muslims worship a pagan rock ( al-Hajaru-l-Aswad) during the Haj and bow to it 5 times a day?
Bow and worship have different meanings. Bowing is an act in showing of respect, revere. Worshiping act can be done without bowing. If you in daily life only for money than you are worshiping money. Worship is an action where anything else is no: 2 or thereafter, you put your life into it.

Originally posted by Experiential

Originally posted by Usmani

 
One day, Hazrat Umar approached the stone and said: “I know very well that you are a stone that does no harm and has no benefit. If I had not seen the Holy Prophet (PBUH) kiss you, then I would have never kissed you.
 
I hope your misconception will be removed.
Hello Usmani
Thank you for your reply. Then why did Mohomad kiss it?

There were lots of things that he did in his life time, that was 1400 years ago. I don't do hadith but even that I still have no problem in understanding such simple narration. But here it is:
"I saw he kissed you rock, yet in very certain term he is teaching us that rock is just a rock, lifeless. I do it as a sign for love and gratitude to what he is doing to us".


Hajar ul Aswad (the black stone), is not mentioned in the Qur'an btw.

But aside from the simple stuff. Ishmael's mother was a black woman by the name Khajar. In the Bible she is known as Hagar (Hajar = Khajar). The kissing was an act of love to the very important woman, casted out woman. Arab is a mixed race with strong African root. The kissing is telling us that African is the root of humanity.

In addition to it, Abraham grave is also there about 10 - 15 meters away, but not inside the Ka'bah.

That is the way I see thing.

Bow ? Worship ? Before Islam, pagans bowed to Hajar ul Aswad as their god. After Islam Muslims bow to Hajar ul Aswad.

Mohammad only wanted to get the Meccans on his side by paying respect to the rock.

 

Also Khajar or Abraham never went to Arabia or Mecca. There is no history outside of the Koran to prove it and the Bible never mentions they went to Mecca. And the Bible is centuries older than the Koran so of course the older history is more reliable. The Koran version is a myth and the Koran has been produced by a human.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2013 at 12:47am
Originally posted by Usmani

 
Quote:-Thank you for your reply. Then why did Mohomad kiss it?
 
You are welcome dear,It the stone came from heaven, nothing wrong and serious about if some one kissing it, isn't ?
 
Take care

Bow ? Worship ? Before Islam, pagans bowed to Hajar ul Aswad as their god. After Islam Muslims bow to Hajar ul Aswad.

Mohammad only wanted to get the Meccans on his side by paying respect to the rock.

Also Khajar or Abraham never went to Arabia or Mecca. There is no history outside of the Koran to prove it and the Bible never mentions they went to Mecca. And the Bible is centuries older than the Koran so of course the older history is more reliable. The Koran version is a myth and the Koran has been produced by a human.

Just like Mohamad tried to get the pagans on his side by kissing the rock idol , he tried to get the Jews on his side by making up stories about Jewish characters from the Bible like Adam, Khajar and Abraham.


Edited by Experiential - 05 May 2013 at 1:15am
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2013 at 8:22am

Qur'an is not produced by human,because some things humans discover in recent centuries Allah mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years back,eg about big bang theory which scientists discover only few 50 years back,Allah mentioned this in Surah An Anbya ch 21 v 30.then few years back I.e in 1600's,1700's,scientists discovered layers of wave within the oceans,sea.Allah had compared about the dark concept of disbeliever with the fact mentioned above in Surah An Noor ch 24 v 40,in Holy Qur'an 1400 years ago.We Muslims don't bow down besides Allah.the biggest message of Hajj is to prove universal brotherhood and prove that we bow in one direction I.e in direction of Holy Kabah(Surah Al Baqarah ch 2 v 144).



Edited by NABA - 06 May 2013 at 8:25am
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2013 at 11:22am

Quote:Bow ? Worship ? Before Islam, pagans bowed to Hajar ul Aswad as their god. After Islam Muslims bow to Hajar ul Aswad.

 

Just about one and half year back, I have performed hajj and millions of Muslims from all over the world were there, I had spend one month living near Kaba spending my most of time there in kaba.I have never seen a single person bowing or worshiping HAJAR –E-ASWAD just kissing only.

 

How can you believe in the truth when you are keeping yourself 180 degree away from it.

 

Quote: Mohammad only wanted to get the Meccans on his side by paying respect to the rock.

 

And by breaking the 360 statue which were there inside the kaba and Meccans used to worship them.

 

Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2013 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Usmani

Quote: Mohammad only wanted to get the Meccans on his side by paying respect to the rock.

 

And by breaking the 360 statue which were there inside the kaba and Meccans used to worship them.


Jazak Allahu Kharun brother. 


It's so obvious but they love to deny the truth even when it slaps them on the face.



Edited by Rational - 07 May 2013 at 11:42am
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2013 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Experiential

Also Khajar or Abraham never went to Arabia or Mecca. There is no history outside of the Koran to prove it and the Bible never mentions they went to Mecca. And the Bible is centuries older than the Koran so of course the older history is more reliable. The Koran version is a myth and the Koran has been produced by a human.


Did I say Qur'an?



Edited by nothing - 08 May 2013 at 10:45pm
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2013 at 1:10am
Originally posted by nothing

Originally posted by Experiential

Also Khajar or Abraham never went to Arabia or Mecca. There is no history outside of the Koran to prove it and the Bible never mentions they went to Mecca. And the Bible is centuries older than the Koran so of course the older history is more reliable. The Koran version is a myth and the Koran has been produced by a human.


Did I say Qur'an?

In English Koran can either be spelt as 'Koran' or 'Quaran'. Anyway -
Khajar or Abraham never went to Arabia or Mecca. There is no history outside of the Quaran to prove it and the Bible never mentions they went to Mecca. And the Bible is centuries older than the Quaran so of course the older history is more reliable. The Quaran version is a myth and the Quaran has been produced by a human.
 
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