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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Will anyone defend Islam? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Experiential
 
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2013 at 12:36am

Hello Ron

I agree that the radical militants tend to get more notice than moderate peace loving Muslims. However for those militants like Al-Qaeda with their ideology of ‘jihad’ where do they get it from? They appear to be getting it from the Koran itself. The Koran does appear to be violent. It’s full of militancy. For example here are some verses. Admittedly some are in the context of defense – but violent all the same.

 

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors”. 2:190

 “And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter”

 2:191

 

“And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression”. 2:193

 

“Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not” 2:216

 

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

 

 “Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

 

"Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home "4:95

 

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly" 8:60

 

"O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding" 8:65

 

"Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers"  9:14

 

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued"  9:29

 

"Say: can you expect for us (and fate) other than one of two glorious things (martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send his punishment (for not believing in Allah) from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you" 9:52

 

 

 

Also here is a quote from the famous Pakistani thinker and theologian Maulana Maududi

 

“Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless  of the country or the Nation which rules it. …

Maulana Maududi, - Jihad in Islam, p.6, 7,22.

 

 

Or another one from the Ayatollah Khomeini who is quoted by Amir Taheri as stating –

 

“Islam make sit incumbent on all adult males provided they are not disabled and incapacitated to prepare themselves for the conquest of (other) countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.

But those who study Islamic Holy war will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world … Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war Those (who say this a) are witless. Islam says kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you….

Islam says what ever good there is exists due to the sword and the shadow of the sword. People cannot be made obedient without the sword. The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for Holy warriors.

There are hundreds of other (Koranic) psalms and Hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls wjo make such a claim.

Holy Terror by Amir Taheri page 226 -227

 

Also look at the Muslim concept of Dar al-Harb. Dar al-Harb (the abode of war) provides the contrast to Dar al-Islam. Dar al-Harb denotes territory that is not governed by Islam.

While these terms are not found in the Koran or Hadith and confusion exists in the Islamic world as to their definition they have been interpreted in a violent context.

Muslim radicals claim that warfare (jihad) can be invoked in order to convert the abode of war into the abode of Islam. For example.

 

Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi was quoted in As Sarq al Awast of  July 19, 2003 as saying: 

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al-Harb are not protected."

 

Likewise, Sheikh Ali Gomaa said  in an interview published in July 2003 by the Egyptian newspaper Al-Haqiqa:

"...it is permitted to kill him, because he is a Harbi and the Harbi spreads corruption throughout the face of the earth."

 

Also in regards to the person you quoted saying –

Islam also teaches its followers to be very flexible and to use open warfare only when Muslims are stronger than their enemies. When Muslims are weak, they should pretend to be peaceful and wait for right time to strike at the non-Muslims, but the goal (domination of Islam) always remains the same.

Earlier verses written in Medina when the Muslim armies were weak are less militant than the later militant verses written in Mecca when Mohammad’s armies were strong.

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Quote W.S. Replybullet Posted: 10 May 2013 at 2:19am
Interesting that that no one has responded to Experimental's post.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 9:18am
Experiential y don't U quote these verses such as Surah Al Maidah ch 5 v 32-if U save an innocent human being as if U have save the whole humanity,in Surah Al Tawbah which is the only verse that does not start with Bismillah Ar Rehman Ar Raheem,that chapter Allah says that if any polyathiest wants peace forgive him and guide to the place of safety,Allah is merciful to those who repent.this is mentioned in surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 1-9.

Edited by NABA - 13 May 2013 at 9:19am
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by NABA

Experiential y don't U quote these verses such as Surah Al Maidah ch 5 v 32-if U save an innocent human being as if U have save the whole humanity,in Surah Al Tawbah which is the only verse that does not start with Bismillah Ar Rehman Ar Raheem,that chapter Allah says that if any polyathiest wants peace forgive him and guide to the place of safety,Allah is merciful to those who repent.this is mentioned in surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 1-9.
Well, why don't you, NABA!  Oh, look at that -- you did! LOL
 
Now, is anyone interested in responding to this guy? --
 
Originally posted by Ronson

All I can say is that if peaceful, ordinary Muslims would come out of hiding and actually condemn the jihadists who are attacking everything that moves, then maybe Christians wouldn't have to do it for them.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2013 at 12:10am
Originally posted by NABA

Experiential y don't U quote these verses such as Surah Al Maidah ch 5 v 32-if U save an innocent human being as if U have save the whole humanity,in Surah Al Tawbah which is the only verse that does not start with Bismillah Ar Rehman Ar Raheem,that chapter Allah says that if any polyathiest wants peace forgive him and guide to the place of safety,Allah is merciful to those who repent.this is mentioned in surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 1-9.

Yes and read on to the next verse in Surah Al Maidah ch 5 –

 

It is but a just recompense for those who make war on God and His apostle,  and endeavor to spread corruption on earth, that they are being slain in great numbers, or crucified in great numbers, or have, in result of their perverseness, their hands and feet cut off in great numbers …

 

Also have a good read of Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 1-9. Look at verse 9.5-

 

But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.

 

Not very gracious or merciful ! And Muslims say there is no compulsion is Islam!



Edited by Experiential - 14 May 2013 at 12:12am
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2013 at 9:26am
first of All a person cannot b called a Muslim unless he is peaceful,so there is no question to quote peaceful Muslims.if a person calls himself a Muslim then automatically he is peaceful,because Muslim is a person who acquires peace by submitting will to Allah and follow Quran and sayings of prophet.a person does not need to have arabic/persian name to b a muslim.for eg take this verse Surah Al Fussilat ch 41 v 34-Allah says no doubt a bad deed cannot b equal to a good deed,b good to your enemy and then U will c that he had become ur best friend.jihad doesn't mean to fight or cause terror,jihad means to strive and struggle.a common man doing hard work to feed his family,this is jihad,a wife taking care of whole household,this is jihad.those people who call themselves jihadists and cause terror among innocent human beings are not Muslims,they are those who are buildings their place in the hell.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2013 at 4:47pm

Originally posted by NABA

first of All a person cannot b called a Muslim unless he is peaceful,so there is no question to quote peaceful Muslims.if a person calls himself a Muslim then automatically he is peaceful,because Muslim is a person who acquires peace by submitting will to Allah and follow Quran and sayings of prophet.a person does not need to have arabic/persian name to b a muslim.for eg take this verse Surah Al Fussilat ch 41 v 34-Allah says no doubt a bad deed cannot b equal to a good deed,b good to your enemy and then U will c that he had become ur best friend.jihad doesn't mean to fight or cause terror,jihad means to strive and struggle.a common man doing hard work to feed his family,this is jihad,a wife taking care of whole household,this is jihad.those people who call themselves jihadists and cause terror among innocent human beings are not Muslims,they are those who are buildings their place in the hell.

That's fine, NABA, but you need to tell that to people like Ronson, not to me.

Do you think it would be jihad to defend Islam on the Internet, especially in places where it is being unfairly criticised and there is no one to give a true understanding of Islam?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote W.S. Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 2:38am
Originally posted by NABA

first of All a person cannot b called a Muslim unless he is peaceful,so there is no question to quote peaceful Muslims..
So the Prophet was not a Muslim? He was a military commander, after all.
Originally posted by NABA

if a person calls himself a Muslim then automatically he is peaceful,because Muslim is a person who acquires peace by submitting will to Allah and follow Quran and sayings of prophet.
You're so naïve I can barely believe it! Then automatically he's peaceful? If he calls himself Muslim? I wish that some day you'll pull your head out of the sand and get to know the real world and real life.
Originally posted by NABA

a person does not need to have arabic/persian name to b a muslim.for eg take this verse Surah Al Fussilat ch 41 v 34-Allah says no doubt a bad deed cannot b equal to a good deed,b good to your enemy and then U will c that he had become ur best friend.
You're doing the same thing here as you did in my thread, which is avoiding the issue, because you have no answer to it and/or because it's too uncomfortable for you. You write and quote positive things but you don't respond to the issue at hand. So, what about those verses that Experimental posted? In my opinion they should be omitted along with a few other verses that have no place in today's world.
Originally posted by NABA

jihad doesn't mean to fight or cause terror,jihad means to strive and struggle.a common man doing hard work to feed his family,this is jihad,a wife taking care of whole household,this is jihad.those people who call themselves jihadists and cause terror among innocent human beings are not Muslims,they are those who are buildings their place in the hell.
Yes, they are! Saying that they are not Muslims is running away from your responsibility to condemn jihadists and their actions. It's especially important that believing and practicing Muslims, such as yourself, condemn these people - for the sake of both Muslims and non-Muslims.
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