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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 8:21am

Bismillah,

Angela, there are books comparing Islaam and Mormonism.  Of course, since I was Mormon as a child, I noticed the similarities a long time before I heard of the books.  Anyway, have you read them?  A sister mentioned it to me years ago, and I read from hers a little, but I personally never read them.

Men rarely act the way they are supposed to.  That's why there are so many ifs.  If he can be fair, if he supports and protects her.  Lots of times they don't or can't do some or any of what they are supposed to do.  So sad.  We don't need to sit around waiting for big, strong men to protect us when it may or may not happen.  We need to learn to protect ourselves as a right and a duty.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 9:55am

Herjihad, I so totally agree.  My mother made sure my sister and I knew how to fix things around the house and she made my father show us how to change a tire and check all of our car fluids.  She said you should know how to do the things yourself because you can't always count on having a man around to do it for you.  Her grandmother was left a widow with 9 children, she knows how uncertain life is...and my father worked out of town when I was little.

Do you know the names of those books?  I'd love to read them.  The closest I've found was an Anti site that was showing that Joseph stole all his ideas from Mohammed, but it wasn't painting Islam in a good light either, so I'm not going to trust a site like that.

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Fatah-Momin
 
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Quote Fatah-Momin Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 10:47pm
Women In Islam (Immam Abu Hanifa[rahimullah])
Talking about women rights become popular and common talk nowadays, equality between men and women is the main topic and in a conference held in Maryland were a Muslim women misrepresent us accusing Muslim of been ignorant and forcing women wear Hajab and she said that Islam was good for the old days and all we need today is to believe in God and that in our hearts.
Islam encourages women to participate in the general life activities along side the men so long they adhere to the Islamic Law restrictions and requirements. Allah says in the Holy Quran
( )
what could be translated as: The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practice regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Allah also says in the Holy Quran
( )
what could be translated as: The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse.
In Islam, everyones main role is to enjoin good and establish the Deen. The Prophet (may Allahs peace be upon him) said:
( )
Women are the sisters of men.
Allah says in the Holy Quran what could be translated as: And their Lord has accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I allow to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: you are members, one of another;
( )
Men cannot do without women and women cannot do without men. Therefore, in Islam, there is no clash between men and women as it was determined by some philosophers and religions. In Islam, women carry out their work and duties as men do. The first voice that was raised in support of Prophet Mohammed was not a mans voice. It was a womans voice; his wife Khadijah.
First blood that was shed in the way of Allah was not a mans blood, but it was a womans blood; Sumaia the mother of Ammar and the wife of Yasser.
Women participated in the building of the Islamic civilization. Asmaa the daughter of Omair migrated with her husband to Abyssinia. There are many women who pledged commitment and loyalty to Allah and to the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh)
Some women also participated after the hijrah, in the battles with the Prophet to defend Islam, as was mentioned in Albukhari Book in the Chapter of the Jihad of Women where he mentioned the names of the Mothers of the Faithful.
Tens of the suras in the Quran talk about women and even some Surah are named after women such as Mariam and Al Nisaa.
Once, the Companions saw Omar talking with a woman who kept him for a long time. When they objected, he said: this the woman to whom Allah listened from the seventh heaven, shouldnt I listen to her also.
In Sura Al Mumtahina, Allah talks about how women pledged faithfulness to the Prophet.
Aesha was a mong the best scholars in her time she narrated more than one thousand hadeeth of the prophet (pbuh)
Women had a principal role in Islamic life until the Islamic Civilization started to decline and so did the womans role in the Islamic life and society. False Hadeeths started to spread out such as: Do not teach them (women) how to write or consult them and do the opposite or Burying little girls is righteous
In fact, some radical fatwas spread out in the Moslem societies, which forbade women from participating in prayer in Allahs houses. Therefore, women had to live in ignorance. In some Islamic Countries, you could not even find anyone who could teach women. They said that only the husband could teach his wife. However, if the husband is ignorant, how could he then teach anyone?
Some people attribute to Abu Hanifa a Fatwa, which forbids women from going to the mosque, yet Abu Hanifa is the one who permitted women to work as judges except in criminal cases. He also permitted a women to marry herself to one who is her equal.
Abo Hanifa said that it is not require for the wife to serve her husband .
so why they took the first fatwa and ignore the other one .
Fatwa changes as time, place and situation change. Let us fear Allah in our fatwa and let us realize that fatwa is based on its circumstances. We need to differentiate between the specific fatwa and the general fatwa. We also need to distinguish between Fiqh and its basic principles.
Women in the time of the Prophet used to go daily to the mosque to perform the five prayers.
( )
Do not forbid the female servants of Allah from attending the houses of Allah
Some men are even ashamed to mention their wives names as if it is shameful to do so.
The womans issue has been lost between extreme neglect and extreme exaggeration. Some have become very soft with women that you would find those women leaving their homes with barely any clothes to cover their bodies and sitting with men without any shame, and some have become extremely strict with women without any justification. One of the philosophers said:
women are unavoidable evil. Some people even relate this saying incorrectly to Ali may Allah be pleased with him.
Some people say that women were created for men. This saying is absolute falsehood. Women were created for themselves and to worship Allah alone.
The opinion of the majority of the Imams (Al Jomhur) is that wives serve their husbands as a favor; not as an obligation.
This extreme neglect and extreme exaggeration is not part of our religion.
Some people consider a righteous woman is the one who does not leave her home at all. They forgot that this was the punishment of the women who committed adultery before the Sharia punishments were decreed.
They also said that women are half of the society, which is generally correct numerically. But she is the half that influences negatively or positively the other half, be it her husband, her son, her brother etc.
Islam does not object to womens participation along the mens side but according to the Islamic teachings and provisions. We are a Nation, which was given a divine law to discipline it and put its affairs in order. Our reference is always Islam and its laws; not the United Nations Womens rights documents or the International Womens Union or anything else.
Let us protect our women from the poisoned and so-called Womens Rights and let us allow them to have their Allah given rights in order to establish the right Deen and Donia side by side with men.
Women In Islam
Talking about women rights become popular and common talk nowadays, equality between men and women is the main topic and in a conference held in Maryland were a Muslim women misrepresent us accusing Muslim of been ignorant and forcing women wear Hajab and she said that Islam was good for the old days and all we need today is to believe in God and that in our hearts.
Islam encourages women to participate in the general life activities along side the men so long they adhere to the Islamic Law restrictions and requirements. Allah says in the Holy Quran
( )
what could be translated as: The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practice regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Allah also says in the Holy Quran
( )
what could be translated as: The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse.
In Islam, everyones main role is to enjoin good and establish the Deen. The Prophet (may Allahs peace be upon him) said:
( )Women are the sisters of men.
Allah says in the Holy Quran what could be translated as: And their Lord has accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I allow to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: you are members, one of another;
( )
Men cannot do without women and women cannot do without men. Therefore, in Islam, there is no clash between men and women as it was determined by some philosophers and religions. In Islam, women carry out their work and duties as men do. The first voice that was raised in support of Prophet Mohammed was not a mans voice. It was a womans voice; his wife Khadijah.
First blood that was shed in the way of Allah was not a mans blood, but it was a womans blood; Sumaia the mother of Ammar and the wife of Yasser.
Women participated in the building of the Islamic civilization. Asmaa the daughter of Omair migrated with her husband to Abyssinia. There are many women who pledged commitment and loyalty to Allah and to the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh)
Some women also participated after the hijrah, in the battles with the Prophet to defend Islam, as was mentioned in Albukhari Book in the Chapter of the Jihad of Women where he mentioned the names of the Mothers of the Faithful.
Tens of the suras in the Quran talk about women and even some Surah are named after women such as Mariam and Al Nisaa.
Once, the Companions saw Omar talking with a woman who kept him for a long time. When they objected, he said: this the woman to whom Allah listened from the seventh heaven, shouldnt I listen to her also.
In Sura Al Mumtahina, Allah talks about how women pledged faithfulness to the Prophet.
Aesha was a mong the best scholars in her time she narrated more than one thousand hadeeth of the prophet (pbuh)
Women had a principal role in Islamic life until the Islamic Civilization started to decline and so did the womans role in the Islamic life and society. False Hadeeths started to spread out such as: Do not teach them (women) how to write or consult them and do the opposite or Burying little girls is righteous
In fact, some radical fatwas spread out in the Moslem societies, which forbade women from participating in prayer in Allahs houses. Therefore, women had to live in ignorance. In some Islamic Countries, you could not even find anyone who could teach women. They said that only the husband could teach his wife. However, if the husband is ignorant, how could he then teach anyone?
Some people attribute to Abu Hanifa a Fatwa, which forbids women from going to the mosque, yet Abu Hanifa is the one who permitted women to work as judges except in criminal cases. He also permitted a women to marry herself to one who is her equal.
Abo Hanifa said that it is not require for the wife to serve her husband .
so why they took the first fatwa and ignore the other one .
Fatwa changes as time, place and situation change. Let us fear Allah in our fatwa and let us realize that fatwa is based on its circumstances. We need to differentiate between the specific fatwa and the general fatwa. We also need to distinguish between Fiqh and its basic principles.
Women in the time of the Prophet used to go daily to the mosque to perform the five prayers.
( ) Do not forbid the female servants of Allah from attending the houses of Allah
Some men are even ashamed to mention their wives names as if it is shameful to do so.
The womans issue has been lost between extreme neglect and extreme exaggeration. Some have become very soft with women that you would find those women leaving their homes with barely any clothes to cover their bodies and sitting with men without any shame, and some have become extremely strict with women without any justification. One of the philosophers said:

women are unavoidable evil. Some people even relate this saying incorrectly to Ali may Allah be pleased with him.
Some people say that women were created for men. This saying is absolute falsehood. Women were created for themselves and to worship Allah alone.
The opinion of the majority of the Imams (Al Jomhur) is that wives serve their husbands as a favor; not as an obligation.
This extreme neglect and extreme exaggeration is not part of our religion.
Some people consider a righteous woman is the one who does not leave her home at all. They forgot that this was the punishment of the women who committed adultery before the Sharia punishments were decreed.
They also said that women are half of the society, which is generally correct numerically. But she is the half that influences negatively or positively the other half, be it her husband, her son, her brother etc.
Islam does not object to womens participation along the mens side but according to the Islamic teachings and provisions. We are a Nation, which was given a divine law to discipline it and put its affairs in order. Our reference is always Islam and its laws; not the United Nations Womens rights documents or the International Womens Union or anything else.
Let us protect our women from the poisoned and so-called Womens Rights and let us allow them to have their Allah given rights in order to establish the right Deen and Donia side by side with men.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 11:19pm

No offense to both to the Mormon faith and to no disrespect to you Angela but I have yet to find anything in Mormonism in comparison to Islam. Again Mormonism in respect to other Christian sects is not held as a legitimate sect (in fact its held as Heterodoxical Christianity) in Christianity and since its the youngest of the Christian sects its quite hard to see any comparison (I'm not making blind assertions as I studied basic philosophies regarding this faith). If you can Angela can you cite how Mormonism (not Christianity or Catholicism) is more similar to Islam or would you be willing to say that Christianity (not Mormonism) is similar to Islam?

Herjihad I agree and disagree with you.

First I agree that Men are not what they were in the past, but then again men are not like they are now because all men differ. If you are referring to a specific group but in general all men differ now, past, present and future that is how people are. As for in respect towards women I understand your point, but then again we must be aware of the society/culture that you are referring to. In the States there is a high rate of domestic violence and high divorce rate. There is a general philosophy among the younger/middle age groups that women are below men and there are portrayals of the exploitation of women, but the same can be said for men. Remeber Herjihad women are not saints either so the amount of changes certain men need to change the same can be said for women so we must create solutions for each other!



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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 10:13am

No offense to both to the Mormon faith and to no disrespect to you Angela but I have yet to find anything in Mormonism in comparison to Islam. Again Mormonism in respect to other Christian sects is not held as a legitimate sect (in fact its held as Heterodoxical Christianity) in Christianity and since its the youngest of the Christian sects its quite hard to see any comparison (I'm not making blind assertions as I studied basic philosophies regarding this faith).

Not True, our church was founded on April 6, 1830 in Palmyra, NY.  The Southern Baptist Church, which holds a larger following in many parts of the United States was founded by William Bullien Johnson in May of 1845.  We are not the youngest denomination.  As for being held as a legitimate sect.  We have 12 million members and there is no governing Chrisitan organization to say what is and is not Christian.  They accept an evangelical minister with no seminary training or education who's congregation is less than fifty, but they deny 12 million Christians the right to call themselves that.  I disagree with the statement that we are Heterodoxical.  That would imply that there is a true church that everyone agrees is the true church, such as was the case prior to 1054 when the church split between east and west and prior to Martin Luther.

As for the similarities.

Islam:

Believes in a Revealed Book

Had a Prophet

Forbids Alcohol and Drugs

Forbids premartial sex

Believes that all men are accountable for their own sins.

They Fast

Pay Zakat (obligatory charity)

Have obligations about clothing

Believe that God has sent us here to be tested

Believe there are prophets and peoples yet to be discovered

Believe that polygamy if practiced right is not sinful

Mormons:

Believes in a Revealed Book

Had a Prophet (granted we continue to have them)

Forbids Alcohol and Drugs

Forbids premartial sex

Believes that all men are accountable for their own sins.

They Fast

Pay Tithing (obligatory charity)

Have obligations about clothing

Believe that God has sent us here to be tested

Believe there are prophets and peoples yet to be discovered

Believe that polygamy if practiced right is not sinful

 

Now, I also understand there are glaring differnces too.  The Mormon church believes Heavenly Father to have a body.  We believe the souls of men and women to literally be the spirit children of him.  Jesus Christ is God's son and our eldest brother.  We believe in the ordinances of baptism, gift of the Holy Spirit and other endowments and sealings.  We believe families to be an eternal thing and the very center of life on this mortal earth.  We believe that God removed his church within 100 years of Christ's death (another obvious difference).  There are other differences.  I'm not saying the faiths are exactly alike.  I'm saying they share common practices, such as fasting, tithing and devotion.  I agree there are BIG, BIG differences, but I'm also seeing the commonalities of both religions.

 

BTW, Fatah, I really liked the last post....lots of food for thought.



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Quote firewall Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 6:15pm



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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2005 at 5:46am

Bismillah,

Angela, I don't know the names of the books.  It has been nearly 20 years since this happened.  Sorry.  Maybe we could write a new one. 

Fatah, not only did I like your recent post about women and men in Islaam, but I really appreciate it.  It has a point to me that you might not have seen.  Because of all of these false hadith and out-dated fatwas, I trust the basics of Islaam, the Quraan, but the Hadith that decimate women and men or take away rights or dignity clearly established in the Quraan, I do not believe.  Whatever their Isnaads may be, Allah's, SWT's, Mercy is Supreme for me and many others. 

I left Christianity for a reason:  It didn't make sense.  Thank Allah, SWT, that the basic tenets of Islaam makes sense and Allah, SWT, opened my heart to it, or I wouldn't have become a Muslimah.  People need to stop insulting sisters and be glad that we are Muslims and not Kaffir.  Al-Hamdulilah, I am very pleased that I am a Muslimah after all of these years.  But it is sad that most often it is fellow Muslims who hurt me with their vicious verbal attacks, rather than the Christians.  Especially the Christians like Angela, May Allah, SWT, bless her for her respect for Muslims.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2005 at 7:50am

Thank you Herjihad.  I sincerely hope God blesses your Ramadan. 

The only books I've found that compare our two religions are anti books.  One website was so full of venom and blatant lies about both faiths that it was pathetic. 

I also think that the west need to update their views on Islam.  To often we get stuck in the 1001 Arabian Nights mindset or we only look at the extremists.  The average muslim family is not all that different.  Husband, Wife, kids, inlaws, cousins and grandparents all trying to get through life and understand where they came from and where they are going. 

I'm pretty sure after my few months here that had I had a good muslim rolemodel as a young woman, I probably would be a Muslimah now.  But my life did not take me down that path.

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