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Interfaith Dialogue
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Fatah-Momin
 
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Quote Fatah-Momin Replybullet Topic: Women in Islam
    Posted: 05 October 2005 at 6:14pm

Asalaam Alikum

This is a very sensitive issue, which is raised in christian [western]media over and over. Recently in Canada where jews and christian are allowed to practise their family laws through arbitration, the muslims were not allowed to implement the sharia for the same purpose. The pretext was that in Islam women is not equal to man thus it will undermine their equality under human right charter of Canada.
I am not going to go into the inter religion side of the debate where in christianity women are considered to the property of the male, when not married, female is the property of father and after marriage she is the property of the husband, this very relligion also does not give right to the woman to own property or indulge in business.

My question is why is there this misunderstanding about the Rights of women in Islam, In Quran Allah gives so much right to woman that they have almost strangle hold on thier husbands after the marriage and even more if divorced. She is allowed to own property, do business and work according to her ability [with in the limit of hijaab].

Are we as muslim not treating our women, may she be our mother, sister, wife or daughter as she is supposed to be treated, under the rights given to her by Allah.
Have we as muslims taken away the right of women that were given to her by Allah?

I have raised this issue not indulge in interfaith debate but get input from the respected members on the issue.

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amlhabibi2000
 
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2005 at 6:31pm

 

By saying the following I mean no disrespect to anyone or Islam as I have a deep and abiding Love of Islam and Life and I want with all my heart to see all of us prosper in healthy and happy ways and manners and also encourage everyone to care for their Spiritual and Physcial environments. 

There are some laws in Traditional Islam that go against the human rights act and therefor could not accept the chance someone would be stoned, have their hands cut off or some of the other arcaic practices when true justice is education, counseling and consultation.

Every human being deserves to have opportunities for education, training and consultation to resolve their issues or learn new and better skills to deal with the challenges they are faced with.

All woman are Leaders in Islam and so are all men the challenge is for each of us to address our histories of neglect and abuse in our lives whether we were abused physically, sexually, emotionallly or neglected or self abusive with over eating, drugs and alchol and also accept responsibility for stopping our abusive behaviors towards ourselves, our families, our communities and get the assistance as I mentioned to learn new and better skills to deal with the challenges we are faced with.

This requires a sacride Hajj (Pilgrimage) to ourselves, our families, our communities and Nation seeing where we need assistance, education, training and guidance to to address the issues and challenges in our lives.

For this we reguire an Inter Faith Call to Jihad (Jihad means struggle and the first level is self) of Education, Counseling, Consultation with Prayer and Living Prayers as well as Hajj (Pilgrimage) to all levels of our lives.

There is hope and it begins with each of us seeking out in our communities the resource centers and people with the education, training and counseling and encouragement to learn new and better ways of coping and living.

We are worth the effort. 

Many Blessings will unfold as we take on this challenge in a personal way though there may be some rough spots.

Even if you feel like your the worst among us there is hope.

May Allah Speed your progress and may your spirit be renewed abundantly and your family revived and your community inspired by your efforts.

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi



Edited by amlhabibi2000
Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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firewall
 
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Quote firewall Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2005 at 7:44pm
Bismillahi rahmani raheem,

i
don't really know about the true situation in Canada etc, only for me, i don't find oppression from my fellow muslim men at all. Alhamdulillah. of course, Islamic law must be enacted. to say Islamic law is unfair, is downright false.

& it's fascinating how the westerns think of muslims women. that when Karen Hughes wanted the Saudi women to drive, & yet the Saudi women themselves said, no thank you, they're happy right now! it seems like it's the west who think low of muslims women. not us, ourselves. it's them who think low of muslim women. we should be angry at them rather!

maybe i should write a book about being happy as a muslim women. the books they read about muslim women, i have to say the famous ones tells of FGM abuse, oppression etc... maybe that's why they mistook us for being oppressed. i don't know if i can write a happy muslim women book, though... maybe i pray some muslim women out there can. or maybe we can make some sort of petition. just to say, "WE'RE HAPPY ALREADY, STOP SAYING WE'RE NOT!"


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amlhabibi2000
 
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:30pm

 

Alaikoam Salam

True some of us are however there are some living lives of abuse, neglect and ignorance and apathy and these woman, children and men need to understand clearly that there is help, hope and an opportunity for Jannah, Heaven in this life.

As I understand it Islam the word means to submit to the will of Allah and therefor it is a process we are all in and this makes each of Us Muslims with the freedom to choose our Spiritual Path from the many Allah has set before us. 

It is important that everyone have the freedom to seek education, counseling, consultation and guidance when facing issues of violence in the family, community or Nation as well as assistance to address issues of self abuse like eating disorders, anger management and guidance to stop abusing others, ourselves or our environment.

Though we wise it was true that there was no issues of abuse or violence within the Muslim community there is and it is time people accept that there is and stop looking the other way while some men beat their wives and children, sexually abuse woman and children, hold people hostage in poverty and other issues.

As I mentioned all Mankind is a Muslim Ummah and to address the issues of violence, abuse and neglect we have to make a Hajj (Pilgrimage) to all levels of ourselves, Families, Communities and Nations and encourage all those dwelling with these issues to seek positive education and training to renew the wonderful precious spirit and soulAllah gave us and create Peace within ourselves and all our lives as best we can with assistance of course.

Community has to step up to the plate and create support groups and education and training programs to assist people in meeting the challenges of Life and Islam they are faced with.

People need to realize there is hope and be inspired to Arise Responsibly and Spiritually and as I mentioned get the assistance they need to become healthier, happier and people who respect themselves others and the world.

Thank you to all those who have Arisen to address the issues of abuse in their lives in positive ways.

Let us replace the anger and frustration in the world with wonderful opportunities for Spiritual and Physical develope and improvement of us all.

Let the day arrive when not one soul is left wondering in dispair or giving up to apathy and let all Mankind be inspired to Arise and become a wonderful caring, vibrant Global and Local Individuals, Families and Communities they were meant to be.

Allah has breathed His Spirit into all of creation and our gift in return can be nothing less than an unpresidented effort to accomplish personal and Global Peace and thus create Heaven, Jannah in this life and all the lives of all the people nopt just some of us.

This has been a dream since the begining of time and we are presented with the education, technology, resources and now a chance to call all the people to bea motivated Team member and participate in groups related their particular issues and challenges and share in the benifits of working together in this Common Call to an Inter Faith Jihad of Education, Training, Counseling and Consultation.

Imagine a world, individuals, families, communities and Nations where violence or abuse is not even a consideration in thier approach to resolving the challenges we have.

Just imagine everyone around the world and in your family and neighbourhood a lot happier and healthier and active participants in family and community.

Resources and funds could be saved and redirected towards fun things for individuals, families and community.

Then instead of fighting battles of blood they could arrange more interesting and fun things to do like world cruises and every family could see the world and all the wonderful cultures there are and just plainly have a great life free of fear and encouraged and inspired to be their best.

There is no time to waste as lives are in the balance and they need to know there is help and hope.

Someone once said to take on healing oneself, ones family, ones community in the end heals the whole world.

As a child I had a dream of Heaven, a place where everyone had a place to go to resolve their delemas and now I find that though there is still work to to we have such a place.

So my Dawah and dream is to encourage and inspire everyone that there is hope and help and to sek education, guidance to meet the demands of all their challenges in a positive way accepting responsiblity for themselves and thier families learning new skills and behaviors when feeling frustrated, angry, neglected, unloved or respected and nurture respect by respecting themselves and others with improved coping skills.

The task may seem over whelming so you will need to find support and encouragement as you work on this Dawah, Hajj (pilgrimage) to self, family, community and Nation. 

Let no one be left in dispair or using violence or abusive behavior to solve their challenges.

We are the Hope and the Future, We are the Messiah and the Prophets, let our collective legacy and Message in the years to come be one of Peace, Hope and Prosperity for all Mankind and the World.

This may sound like a fantasy however we are in the time of the Day of Judgement and in each moment is a time to judge do we need assistance with some challenges we are faced with like physical, verbal abuse or violence, education or training and it is a time to seek out in the community the resource centers to address these and other issues.

The only day of distruction is a day of deconstruction as we learn new skills and methods of meeting our issues and delemas in a peaceful and caring way.

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi



Edited by amlhabibi2000
Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Fatah-Momin
 
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Quote Fatah-Momin Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2005 at 9:27pm

 amlhabibi2000=however there are some living lives of abuse

Please tell us where in christian world does the woman not live in abuse? Why is every personal action of a "Muslim" man or woman is labeled as Islam?

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2005 at 10:01am

To answer your first post, I would like to explain why western women are taught that muslim women are oppressed.  Its pure misinformation and a little islamic extremism from groups that have been denounced by the larger muslim community.  Western rights groups take what was done to the faithful men and women in Afganistan and use that as a label for all the beliefs.  When you don't understand that most Islamic women CHOSE to where the Hijab or Niqaab, then you look at the Afgani Burka and the abuse of women there and think....That's the whole faith.  Wrongfully.  My perceptions of muslim women has changed dramatically since I started coming here.  My perceptions of Islam as a religion has changed equally so.  I recently read an article about a murder trial in Saudi Arabia.  The man was sentenced to be executed because he killed a man in a fight.  It was accidental, but the man was clearly at fault.  His head was on the chopping block and the murdered man's family stopped the execution.  They realized that killing this man was not going to bring there son back and they decided to show mercy in hopes the man would become a better person.  Now, this is not a sign of a barbaric society.  I find that act to be more humane than many of the cases here in the US where someones life is taken from them when there is doubt or they get 25 years for a bar room assault. 

The perception that muslim women are oppressed is wrong.  Now, there are women in Arab countries, Inda and Africa that suffer.  But, I believe this is more of a cultural issue than a muslim issue. 

Besides, it is not faith if you are forced into it.  A woman who choses her hijab is far more honored than a woman who only wears it to avoid a beating. 

There is only one other thing I'd like to ask?  Its often used to support the theory that muslimahs are oppressed.  Its a verse in the Koran....

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Now, I've seen several people post that Christian women are property.  But, I've never seen a directive to beat your wife in the Bible?  I'm not attacking...I am truly curious about this verse.

What does it mean by "those on whose part you fear desertion"?

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amlhabibi2000
 
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2005 at 1:12pm

 

Alaikoam Salam

I will remind you that the word Islam means to submit ones will to Allah, God, the Creator and as such we are all in various degrees of this and therefor it is my belief we are all Muslims or ie people in the process of learning how to be better people.

I believe Islam incompasses all life and all Spiritual Paths, ie religions and even the choice of none is our right and freedom and no one can force us to believe in anything unless we choose to.

If we want the world and ourselves to become better, healthier, happier then we must pay close attention to the core foundations of Islam which as I mentioned includes all religious paths or none and these foundations are education, counseling, consultation, prayer with living prayer and making Hajj (pilgrimage) periodically to our lives, our families, our communities seeing where we need assistance or education and training to learn new and better coping skills.

These are the foundations and the time has come when all Mankind need to Arise Responsibly and Spiritually and learn good communication skills, good conflict resolution skills, parenting skills, sexual health education and how to nurture and build relationships that stand the tests of time.

Anything less is a waste of prescious lives and resources not to mention with this enjoining maybe we can solve the problems of poverty, violence and ignorance and restore true justice which is education, counseling and consultation.

Referring to us all as Muslims or that all is Islam is not disrespecting anyone if anything it is restoring our dignity as we are the Messiah, the Prophets, the Manifestations of God and People of Spirit a Living Messiah in the Multitudes not one of us but all of us.  We are all Messengers of Allah, God, The Creator and may the Message of Our lives be one of Dignity and Respect for Ourselves and others as well as create Heaven on Earth and within each of us.

As I mentioned before we can also inter change the word Life with Islam as it is the same thing.

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited by amlhabibi2000
Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2005 at 10:29am

Bismillah,

Unfortunately, many people with power will abuse that power.  Men have had and will continue to have power for a long time.  All men, Hindu, Christian, Muslim need to strive to control themselves because of this.  Now that is a great jihad to be involved with:  Kindness, patience, forbearance, mercy with self-control as the leader amongst these ideas.

Angela, Spare the rod, spoil the child is something I think of as a Christian ideaology.  That extended to discipline of the wife for many throughout Christian history.

Well, most people when explaining this verse tell the story of how the prophet Muhammad, PBUH, got angry with his servant and said that he would beat him with his miswak, small toothstick, if he weren't afraid of the punishment of Allah, SWT.

Another thing is that it is for stealing his property or having an affair.

Firewall, glad to meet a happy, unoppressed Muslim lady. Ma'ShahAllah.

Personally, I try to focus on all the people who are worse off than I am in order to be able to handle what I have to.  Praying for them soothes my soul, and is better than constantly worrying about myself.



Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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