Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: PAUL Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Author Message
Placid
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 November 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 231
Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 21 September 2013 at 12:20pm
Hi iec,

Quote: If Paul said he used deceit then that is what it means no matter what label you give it.Spin it anyway you like.

Response: --- Sorry to be slow at answering. --- Have you ever crashed a party? --- When you surprise people you can catch them red handed in what they do when you are not there. --- That is also called detective work.

Because you have such a thing against Paul, and don’t believe anything about him you are slandering Jesus too, because Jesus said that Paul was a ‘chosen vessel,’ --- and He sent him as an Apostle to the Gentiles.

We don’t have to defend Paul, because Jesus called him, and instructed him throughout his missionary journeys. --- The word Apostle means, “One sent,” as an ambassador, as it says in Acts 22:
“Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
18 and saw Him (Jesus) saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’
21 Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’”

Now you don’t have to believe our Faith, or what the Scripture teaches about Jesus and Paul. --- But I am surprised that you have such an interest in expressing your unbelief. (It really shouldn’t matter to you what we believe, should it?)

--- You no doubt feel that the Quran updated the Scriptures, so let’s look at a verse in Surah 3:
55 Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute

--- “I will take thee and raise thee to Myself,” --- is translated by others this way:
“I am terminating your life on earth,” --- “I will cause you to die a natural death.”
--- If you check the original Arabic, you will find it refers to physical death.

--- “And clear you of the falsehoods of the blasphemers,”
--- “I will make those who follow thee ‘superior’ to those who reject faith,”
--- (So that means that those of us who believe in Jesus along with Paul, will have a good standing with God, does it not?)

And the next verse says:
56 "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Placid
IP IP Logged
iec786
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 February 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2013 at 6:51am
Hi placid,
Response: --- Sorry to be slow at answering. --- Have you ever crashed a party?

No i have not.



Because you have such a thing against Paul, and don’t



believe anything about him you are slandering Jesus too

No i did not slander anyone.I merely quoted a verse from the Bible in which Paul says 2 Corinthians 12:16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to ...
biblehub.com/2_corinthians/12-16.htm‎
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.


He sent him as an Apostle to the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following ... - Bible
biblehub.com/matthew/10-5.htm‎
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of ...
biblehub.com/matthew/15-24.htm‎
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house ... But he answering said, I have not been sent save to the lost sheep of Israel's house.

This is the problem what Jesus said you choose to ignore.Paul nailed whatever Jesus taught to the cross.


I know you mean well but in the new Testament 90% of the words of Paul are black and 10% of what Jesus said is in red ,thus said that the new Testament has got nothing of the teachings of Jesus unequivocal.



IP IP Logged
Placid
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 November 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 231
Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2013 at 6:08am
Hi iec,

Quote: These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Response: --- When Jesus began His ministry he went to various places, like this occasion in Matthew 4:
24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

However, when Jesus had chosen 12 to be His Apostles and began to train them, He sent them only to the Jews. --- All of them, being Jews, were prejudiced against the Samaritans and the Gentiles so this was their first mission on their own in Matthew 10:
1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts,
10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

After their three years of training, traveling with Him, and becoming Evangelists who could teach others the Message of the Gospel, Jesus told them that He would be put to death, and that they would carry on the Ministry.

--- Judas betrayed Jesus, but the other 11 remained together, and after Jesus was Resurrected, He came to the 11 and spoke to them in Matthew 28:
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- This is called “The Great Commission.”

Jesus appeared on earth for 40 days after His Resurrection, and at the end of that time He met with them again in Acts 1:
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.
13 And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James.
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.--- (Notice that Jesus' mother Mary, and His brothers were there also.)

These were the same 11 Apostles, and some had more than one name.
I have a little booklet that gives a short history of where each Apostle went.

Paul was not one of them, but would have known them as well as Jesus, when they travelled with Him because Paul was in Jerusalem, and was a Pharisee.
He was not mentioned Till Acts 7 and 8, --- which leads up to his conversion in 9.
Paul was the Apostle that Jesus commissioned to go to the Gentiles in Acts 22:
17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
18 and saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’
21 Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’”
--- An Apostle is “One sent,” as an ambassador. --- So Paul was a later Apostle to the Gentiles.

Placid
IP IP Logged
Webber
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 09 December 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 128
Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2013 at 8:32pm
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.


I think the misunderstanding here is that you are thinking Paul used "guile" to be crafy. What this means is he was crafty, (went to the church unannounced) and caught them with guile.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
IP IP Logged
iec786
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 February 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2013 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi iec,

Quote: These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:True Jesus came to the Jews only.

Response: --- When Jesus began His ministry he went to various places, like this occasion in Matthew 4:
24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

However, when Jesus had chosen 12 to be His Apostles and began to train them, He sent them only to the Jews. --- All of them, being Jews, were prejudiced against the Samaritans and the Gentiles so this was their first mission on their own in Matthew 10:No they were not prejudiced as you would like us to believe they were merely obeying the orders of Jesus who told them commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not
1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. was this a test of their faith.New International Version
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts,
10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.Paul was not one of them.

After their three years of training, traveling with Him, and becoming Evangelistsdoes the bible say they became evangelist??? please supply the verse no. who could teach others the Message of the Gospel, Jesus told them that He would be put to death,reference please and that they would carry on the Ministry.againe reference please.You see my problem is you are using words that are deceptive and that these words were not in the vocabulary of Jesus.words like ministry???he was a Jew.

--- Judas betrayed Jesus, but the other 11 remained together, and after Jesus was Resurrected,I hope you have the evidence for your claim that he was resurrected. He came to the 11 and spoke to them in Matthew 28: they did not believe he was resurrected.
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- This is called “The Great Commission.”

Jesus appeared on earth for 40 days after His Resurrection, and at the end of that time He met with them again in Acts 1:
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.
13 And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James.
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.--- (Notice that Jesus' mother Mary, and His brothers were there also.)

These were the same 11 Apostles, and some had more than one name.
I have a little booklet that gives a short history of where each Apostle went.

Paul was not one of them, but would have known them as well as Jesus, when they travelled with Him because Paul was in Jerusalem, and was a Pharisee.
He was not mentioned Till Acts 7 and 8, --- which leads up to his conversion in 9.
Paul was the Apostle that Jesus commissioned to go to the Gentiles in Acts 22:
17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
18 and saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’
21 Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’”
--- An Apostle is “One sent,” as an ambassador. --- So Paul was a later Apostle to the Gentiles.who seen Jesus talking to Paul???

Placid
IP IP Logged
Placid
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 November 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 231
Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2013 at 6:39am
Hi iec,

To give you references would not help much as you wouldn't likely look them up.
However, the conclusion is here in Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- This is called “The Great Commission.”
IP IP Logged
iec786
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 February 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 463
Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 08 October 2013 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi iec,

To give you references would not help much as you wouldn't likely look them up. I just love the way you wormed your way out.
However, the conclusion is here in Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
--- This is called “The Great Commission.”
    It is unknown who coined the term: "The Great Commission".
Scholars such as Eduard Riggenbach (in "Der Trinitarische Taufbefehl') and J.H. Oldham et al (in "The Missionary Motive") assert that even the very concept did not exist until after the year 1650,


If this concept was coined after 1650 then someone was playing with scripture.
IP IP Logged
Placid
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 November 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 231
Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2013 at 11:15am
Hi iec,
The term, "The Great Commission" is not part of any Scripture verse. --- It is not in the Douay which was translated about 1600 from Latin, and it is not in the King James which was translated shortly there after from the Greek Manuscripts. --- It is in Study Bibles as a title only.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 7 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com