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Interfaith Dialogue
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bronaz
 
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2013 at 3:06am
There is something called Abrogation in Quran Where a later verse changes/replaces the content of an earlier verse.
This Abrogation has been explicitly accepted by all Muslims as saying something better was revealed in the new text.
God is perfect. So why would he reveal an imperfect verse.
Take the equivalent in the Bible : Jesus said " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew Chap 5
If something imperfect is revealed in the Quran in any Chapter, it renders the Quran imperfect and hence cannot be the Word of God.
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2013 at 11:07am

Qur'an is the book of signs not science,science is nothing in front of Qur'an,for eg in Surah Muminoon ch 23 v 12-14-Allah describes the development stages of a human being and at some point of time embryo acquires leech like substance which was proved few years ago,1s again I say Qur'an has no version,whatever reference U give doesn't matter,because Allah had taken responsibility of preserving Qur'an in Surah Al Hijra ch 15 v 9,truly Qur'an has solutions to mankind,for eg Qur'an says chop off the hands of thieves,if one implement this law,as it is done in Saudi,In Sha Allah no of crimes will b reduced,another example is don't approach ur women when they are in periods(ch 2 v 222),logically it is right.at bronaz can U show some verses which exhibits abrogation,whole world believes Qur'an is the best form of poetry,best form of poetry doesn't contain abrogation.Allah in Surah al yunus ch 10 v 38,surah Al hud ch 11 v 13 challenges mankind to produce book equal to this,Allah clearly mentions about this fact that he had created Qur'an easy for us to understand in Surah Al Qamar ch 54 v 17,22,32,40.

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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2013 at 1:33am
Dear NABA,
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Quran
Here is an entire list of abrogations in the Quran for you.
Here is the start of an article from Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani
Abrogation is translated from the Arabic word naskh which literally means “to erase; to compensate.” Its technical definition is “to repeal a legal order through legal argument”. In other words, sometimes Allah enforces a legal edict that is relevant only to a particular situation. Later, in His infinite wisdom, He annuls the order and enforces a new one in its place. This action is known as “abrogation” (naskh), and the replaced order is then termed “abrogated” (mansukh) while the new replacing order is called the “abrogator” (nasikh)
Here is the relevant link to the article:
http://www.ilmgate.org/abrogation-in-the-quran/
The article goes on to say in one situation that verse is applicable while not in another later situation. We all know the situations change...Life today is not the same as it was 1500 years ago...but we are not getting something, because you say Muhammad is the last prophet and all that God wants to reveal has been revealed in the Quran. The Quran we know was written over 23 years and from the number of abrogations you can see that 1500 years later we would need more verses to be abrogated. But none can be forthcoming.
I dont think Gods laws can continue to change. Murder is what it was then and now. Goodness is same as it was a long ago. God only wants us to be good. Goodness cannot evolve with the times.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2013 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by NABA

Qur'an is the book of signs not science,science is nothing in front of Qur'an,for eg in Surah Muminoon ch 23 v 12-14-Allah describes the development stages of a human being and at some point of time embryo acquires leech like substance which was proved few years ago,1s again I say Qur'an has no version,whatever reference U give doesn't matter,because Allah had taken responsibility of preserving Qur'an in Surah Al Hijra ch 15 v 9,truly Qur'an has solutions to mankind,for eg Qur'an says chop off the hands of thieves,if one implement this law,as it is done in Saudi,In Sha Allah no of crimes will b reduced,another example is don't approach ur women when they are in periods(ch 2 v 222),logically it is right.at bronaz can U show some verses which exhibits abrogation,whole world believes Qur'an is the best form of poetry,best form of poetry doesn't contain abrogation.Allah in Surah al yunus ch 10 v 38,surah Al hud ch 11 v 13 challenges mankind to produce book equal to this,Allah clearly mentions about this fact that he had created Qur'an easy for us to understand in Surah Al Qamar ch 54 v 17,22,32,40.

You say the Qur'an is the book of signs not science and that science is nothing in front of the Qur'an and then you talk about the embryo and leeches. However once again you are relying on science in your argument– proving that science is as important or superior to the Quran.

 

To say that Allah had taken responsibility of preserving Qur'an is a silly argument. I don’t believe in the Quran so why should I believe in Surah Al Hijra ch 15 v 9 ?

You are simply using the Quaran to support the Quaran. Look outside the Quaran and it does not stand up

There are other versions. The one found in Yemen in 1972 is the oldest Quran in existence and shows the ‘miracle Quran’ is not a miracle at all.

 

You say Allah in Surah challenges mankind to produce book equal to the Quaran. I accept the challenge! I have read Shakespeare, many different poets and the Bible and find them all superior to the Quaran The Quran is not easy understand, it is  rambling its repetitive and redundant. It is violent and cruel.

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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2013 at 9:32am
regarding about the ch 23 v 12-14,that verse was mentioned 1400 years ago in Qur'an,and that fact wad established few years ago by scientists,Qur'an is far above science.talking about facts outside Qur'an Allah in ch 10 v 92 mentioned that corpse of king pharaoh will b the message to the mankind the result of bad deeds,that fact came into existence in 1870's by scientists,I ask U how is that possible,that before the happening of an event,it was mentioned 1400 years ago,truly Qur'an is a miracle of miracles.
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2013 at 6:33pm
Naba, you havent addressed the issue I raised regarding abrogations in the Quran. Using verses anything can be proved...because after all it is a play on words. To examine the Word of God we have to see whether the words are consistent....which unfortunately are not so in the Quran in the light of abrogations...hence it cannot be the Word of God
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2013 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by NABA

regarding about the ch 23 v 12-14,that verse was mentioned 1400 years ago in Qur'an,and that fact wad established few years ago by scientists,Qur'an is far above science.talking about facts outside Qur'an Allah in ch 10 v 92 mentioned that corpse of king pharaoh will b the message to the mankind the result of bad deeds,that fact came into existence in 1870's by scientists,I ask U how is that possible,that before the happening of an event,it was mentioned 1400 years ago,truly Qur'an is a miracle of miracles.

Again you are relying on science in your argument– proving that science is as important or more important than the Quran.

 

You said on my post called The Haj is Shirk that in Sura 21.30 .  Allah mentioned in Qur'an 1400 years back,eg about big bang theory which scientists discover only few 50 years back

 

Here is Sura 21.30. Have a good read -

 

30. Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe 31. And We have placed on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them, and We placed therein broad highways for them to pass through, that they may be guided. 32. And We have made the heaven a roof, safe and well-guarded. Yet they turn away from its signs. 33. And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.

 

Now here is the Bible. Genesis Chapter 1. Verse 1-7 –

 

God saw that the light was good, and he separate   the light from the darkness. 

And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. 

God called the light "day" and the darkness "night." And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day. 

Then God said, "Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth." 

And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. 

 

Obviously Mohamed borrowed his ideas from the Bible. So that means the Bible is the ‘miracle book’ !

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Quote Empiricist Replybullet Posted: 16 June 2013 at 6:17am
Just because there may be prophecies that come true in the Quran does not make it anything special.  There are countless predictions today by people that come true.  Call them prophets, seers or whatever, it is common.  Muhammad cannot be the "last prophet".  Whoever wrote this clearly wanted people to think this so they would not stray from Islam.   Why would there be a "last prophet"?  Prophesy is a gift of many.  Edgar Cayce is an example of a modern prophet.  Many books are written about his writings in trance state.    
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