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Interfaith Dialogue
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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2013 at 9:37am
at bronaz first quote me the verses of Qur'an that exhibit abrogation,where in the Qur'an is the contraindications,I don't c it.at experential,the verses U compare itself proving U wrong.SubhanAllah truly Qur'an is unexplainable in the words of man,the verses U quote from the bible doesn't prove anything regarding the word of God,there is no sun or moon mentioned,how can evening or morning happen without sun or moon??U urself quoted in verse 33 that sun and moon are floating in the orbit,is it real or not??yes it is,so U urself proving urself wrong,in Quran in Surah Al Furqaan ch 25 v 61-moon reflects the light of sun.U say that prophet Muhammad(pbuh) borrow from bible,this shows ur less knowledge,prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was illiterate but was the best man,every Muslim prays that he should intercede for them in hereafter and its our duty to send blessings to him(ch 33 v 56),since he doesn't know how to read how he can borrow from bible,firstly understand that science is a subject that studies nature,I m not taking help of science to prove Qur'an is right,I m taking help of Qur'an to prove that science is not even the size of atom in front of Qur'an.y don't U mentioned the verse ch 29 v 48-that prophet was illiterate,the more U try to prove Qur'an wrong the more U urself are proving wrong.at empiricist Jesus christ(pbuh) in the bible himself predicts coming of last prophet.

Edited by NABA - 21 June 2013 at 9:39am
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2013 at 10:07am

 Experiential
 Obviously Mohamed borrowed his ideas from the Bible.

 My Reply

 Muhammad was born in Mecca.He could not write nor read and spoke only Arabic.Hebrew Bible was not translated into Arabic until the 10th century.Bible was translated into Arabic in the 17th century.So how could Muhammad borrow his ideas from the Bible?
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Quote bronaz Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2013 at 4:16am
Naba and Mansoor....Quran is truly a work of art to be written by an illiterate person, but it cannot be the word of God. I have mentioned earlier that the Word of God is unchanging..this has special relation to what we humans can see and not see...If there is something we can see for example the sun, moon or anything visible then we have to accept what we see with our eyes because that is what is real. When the Word of God describes something that we cannot see...for eg heaven or hell then the description given has to be consistent. How can you test the mercy of God? you have to rely on what is revealed in the Quran.
Say: “O 'Ibadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives ALL sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And turn in repentance and in obedience with true Faith (Islamic Monotheism) to your Lord and submit to Him, (in Islam), before the torment comes upon you, then you will not be helped.” S. 39:53-54
Then again....
in 2:284To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth, and whether you disclose what is in your ownselves or conceal it, Allah will call you to account for it. Then He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
Man is imperfect...he is dependent on Gods mercy else all humans would be lost.
No one can say that Gods Mercy is guaranteed in the
Quran with reference to the above verses...
I presume every Muslim follows Islam to go to heaven, but heaven is not Guaranteed because forgiveness isnt guaranteed.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2013 at 3:48am
Originally posted by NABA

at bronaz first quote me the verses of Qur'an that exhibit abrogation,where in the Qur'an is the contraindications,I don't c it.at experential,the verses U compare itself proving U wrong.SubhanAllah truly Qur'an is unexplainable in the words of man,the verses U quote from the bible doesn't prove anything regarding the word of God,there is no sun or moon mentioned,how can evening or morning happen without sun or moon??U urself quoted in verse 33 that sun and moon are floating in the orbit,is it real or not??yes it is,so U urself proving urself wrong,in Quran in Surah Al Furqaan ch 25 v 61-moon reflects the light of sun.U say that prophet Muhammad(pbuh) borrow from bible,this shows ur less knowledge,prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was illiterate but was the best man,every Muslim prays that he should intercede for them in hereafter and its our duty to send blessings to him(ch 33 v 56),since he doesn't know how to read how he can borrow from bible,firstly understand that science is a subject that studies nature,I m not taking help of science to prove Qur'an is right,I m taking help of Qur'an to prove that science is not even the size of atom in front of Qur'an.y don't U mentioned the verse ch 29 v 48-that prophet was illiterate,the more U try to prove Qur'an wrong the more U urself are proving wrong.at empiricist Jesus christ(pbuh) in the bible himself predicts coming of last prophet.

Naba. Sura 21.30 and Genesis Chapter 1 are not exact but the ideas are so similar that it is obvious that Mohammad borrowed his from the Torah.

 

You say Mohamad didn’t  know how to read how he can borrow from bible?

There were Christians and Jews in Arabia at the time of Mohammad. Mohammad knew the stories from the Torah and Injil through word of mouth. How else would he have known about all of the stories and prophets from the Torah and Injil. Including the creation story? Not being able to read or write had nothing to do with it.

 

No matter how you try to explain it Naba. When you rely on science in your argument you are proving that science is as important or superior to the Quran.

Even if Mohammad was illiterate, so what? He heard his stories from pagans, Jews and Christians. He had his ‘visions’. He told others and they memorized them and wrote them down. No miracle there.

 

Also you asked Empiricist that  Jesus in the Injil himself predicts coming of last prophet. Please state where in the Injil it says this? and please do not say it is John 14.26 because this is about the Holy Spirit. Not Mohammad.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2013 at 3:56am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 Experiential
 Obviously Mohamed borrowed his ideas from the Bible.

 My Reply

 Muhammad was born in Mecca.He could not write nor read and spoke only Arabic.Hebrew Bible was not translated into Arabic until the 10th century.Bible was translated into Arabic in the 17th century.So how could Muhammad borrow his ideas from the Bible?
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There were Christians and Jews in Arabia long before the time of Mohammad. Mohammad knew the stories from the Torah and Injil through word of mouth. How else would he have known about all of the stories and prophets from the Torah and Injil. Including the creation story.

Not being able to read or write had nothing to do with it.

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NABA
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Quote NABA Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2013 at 9:55am
at bronaz to go to heaven one should follow four things as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-man is in the state of loss except those who have faith,those who do good deeds,those who resort people to truth,those who resort people to patience and perseverance,Allah in several places say that there is reward for those who believe,since Allah says this it is enough for us,but we had to constantly ask for forgiveness to him.Allah also says constantly do perseverance and b patient,in ch 8 v 46-Allah is with those who are patient.since Allah promises us there is no question of guarantee.even U can't guarantee ur place in heaven,u say That Jesus(pbuh) is God.Jesus(pbuh) says my father is greater than I whatever I do I do because of him,God has no father.at expereintial U should also b well versed with the fact that apart from Qur'an Allah also send message to our prophet,for eg prophet says that always sleep towards the right side,scientifically it is beneficial,prophet also said that whosoever raises his two daughters with love and affection,he will b close to me at time of entering heaven,so there are several things besides Qur'an that were given to prophet by Allah.i still say science is less superior than Qur'an,eg Allah in ch 45 v 12 says I had made sea for U so that ships can sail easily and other benefits.
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2013 at 4:16am
Originally posted by NABA

at bronaz to go to heaven one should follow four things as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-man is in the state of loss except those who have faith,those who do good deeds,those who resort people to truth,those who resort people to patience and perseverance,Allah in several places say that there is reward for those who believe,since Allah says this it is enough for us,but we had to constantly ask for forgiveness to him.Allah also says constantly do perseverance and b patient,in ch 8 v 46-Allah is with those who are patient.since Allah promises us there is no question of guarantee.even U can't guarantee ur place in heaven,u say That Jesus(pbuh) is God.Jesus(pbuh) says my father is greater than I whatever I do I do because of him,God has no father.at expereintial U should also b well versed with the fact that apart from Qur'an Allah also send message to our prophet,for eg prophet says that always sleep towards the right side,scientifically it is beneficial,prophet also said that whosoever raises his two daughters with love and affection,he will b close to me at time of entering heaven,so there are several things besides Qur'an that were given to prophet by Allah.i still say science is less superior than Qur'an,eg Allah in ch 45 v 12 says I had made sea for U so that ships can sail easily and other benefits.

You have not answered what I have said about the Quran and science. Once again you are relying on science in your argument– proving that science is as important or superior to the Quran. In ch 45 v 12 You talk about ships on the sea, sleeping on your right side and loving your daughters.  So what? Nothing very special about any of this!

 

How are these silly statements from the Koran to be explained scientifically?

Sura 27:18-19 records that King Solomon overheard a conversation between ants. This is scientifically impossible as ants use smell, not sound, to communicate and the context of the story indicates that this is not a miracle of Allah.

 

Sura 18:85-86 reveals that the Sun sets in a muddy pool.

 

These ‘scientific verses’ from the Quran are st**id, silly and ridiculous! You have not answered this. How are these ridiculous statements from the Koran to be explained scientifically?

Do you believe the sun sets in a muddy pond? Also ants communicate by smell – not talking !

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Quote Empiricist Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2013 at 2:08pm
It is obvious the moon is in an orbit around the sun, and that the earth is turning- is that another translation of orbit?

And Mohamed did not need to read, as already stated, to know what the bible said- he obviously had a dislike for Christians and Jews so he must have had much contact with them, so they probably spoke his language. Maybe somebody tried to teach him about Jesus. And again, the writers had some liberty to write what they wanted, and change it over the course of many years. They wanted to have something similar to the bible, so they rewrote it in their own words. And the Quran is not well organized. It has scattered verses, not connected.

Why don't Muslims read the New Testament? There is no punishment if Christians read the Quran or anything else. We are free to find the truth. I have read much of the Quran and the book Quran Dilemma, and it is no comparison to the bible. I hope Muslims wake up and realize they are simply being controlled for political reasons, and seek the truth. The truth is found also by writings of others- CS Lewis was an atheist before he became a Christian. See the book Mere Christianity. If a Muslim would just read this book, they would really see Christianity in a new and truthful light, not like what they are taught about how bad everything else is. This is brainwashing propaganda.

And Jesus did NOT predict Mohammed. It was the holy spirit, and it came right after his death. Mohammed came far too late to do any good. And the Quran is just a book of loopholes allowing many sins that were not allowed in the bible. Mohammed allowed murder, rape, adultery, theft, etc of non-Muslims. Jesus allowed none of this. In fact I see Muslims as always angry and frowning.

And one really as to wonder, what would the religion be like that Satan himself would create. It would be very much like Islam in my opinion- full of loopholes to sin, a deceptive copy of the bible, and full control of the people, through fear of death if they try to sway away from it, and hatred of Christians and Jews. Oh- and Muslims say they believe in Jesus too, but they have no idea what he said. They are told the bible was corrupted, so it is not correct. Is it ALL corrupted? Is the message all changed? That is simply impossible. Maybe a few passages changed, interpreted somewhat differently, but this is true for the Quran too, in fact more so! Over 50 versions at one time! This cannot be denied!

Edited by Empiricist - 04 July 2013 at 2:11pm
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