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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2013 at 1:08am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Matt, interesting that you have mentioned witches, because while they were being burned and tortured the sharia you fear so much was living in peace with other faiths and translating books important to all of mankind.

You are distorting historical facts. While Christians burned and tortured heretics, Muslims had established an apartheid-type system called dhimmitude, based on the laws of the sharia (e.g. in Al-Andalus). As long as Christians and Jews didn't challenge their rulers, no one got hurt. Muslims tortured Muslims who didn't comply with the sharia laws. Muslims beheaded and stoned Muslim heretics, which is equally cruel as burning witches. You are right, at the time, there were also translation of books important to all of mankind. During segregation in the American South important books were also translated into other languages. This doesn't make having second-class citizens any better.

The difference between today's mainstream Christians and mainstream Muslims is that Christians acknowledge the cruelty of the past, while Muslims call Islamic Iberia a tolerant system. Irshad Manji knows that it wasn't, but then she isn't a mainstream Muslim.
Originally posted by abuayisha

Notwithstanding your xenophobia, your society is open and multicultural, therefore "our society" includes Muslims (no matter how much that scares you).

Decent peace-loving Muslims do not resort to using insults. Xenophobia is an irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Show me one example, Abuayisha, of something I wrote that points to xenophobia. Just one example. Well, you won't find a single sentence. You are simply making unfounded accusations, when you run out of arguments.
Originally posted by abuayisha

And if you really understood sharia you would know your touted values and your western society could never be "sharia free" because the very bases of sharia upholds a persons life, religion and wealth - there shall be no harm.

Believe me, I really understand the sharia. There are parts in it that are harmless. But there are other parts in it that resemble the principles of totalitarian ideologies such as Stalinism, Maoism and Nazism. These parts of the sharia blatantly contradict universal human rights and the content of the constitutions of our Western countries. Here are a few examples

1) A Muslim who becomes a Christian or an atheist gets the death penalty.
2) A Muslim and non-Muslim who commits blasphemy must be tortured or killed.
3) The People of the Book are second-class citizens.
4) People who commit adultery are to be stoned to death.
5) Muslim men can socialize with other people, but Muslim women can't.
6) A Muslim woman's testimony is worth less than that of a Muslim man.
7) A non-Muslim's testimony is worth less than that of a Muslim man.
8) Wife beating is not a crime, when the husband has a good reason for it.
(...)
The list goes on and on.


Edited by Matt Browne - 24 April 2013 at 1:31am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2013 at 1:26am
Originally posted by Reepicheep

What we fear are muslims who feel their religion gives them the right to commit terrorist acts (for example, the two muslim brothers who attacked the Boston marathon, or the two muslims who were arrested in Canada yesterday, who were planning to blow up a train travelling from Toronto to New York.)

I would like to add that we should also fear

a) non-violent Muslims who support a political system based on the Quran and the Sunnah
b) non-violent Muslims who distort history and do not acknowledge Muslim cruelty and injustice of the past
c) non-violent Muslims who reject reform and do not acknowledge that there are problematic messages in the Quran and the Sunnah

Take a look at this:

Instances of problematic messages in the Bible:
Injustice: 1528
Cruelty and Violence: 1313
Intolerance: 699
Misogyny: 385
Homosexuality: 36

Instances of problematic messages in the Quran:
Injustice: 769
Intolerance: 536
Cruelty and Violence: 532
Misogyny: 68
Homosexuality: 4

Source:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm



Edited by Matt Browne - 24 April 2013 at 6:30am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2013 at 6:24am
Originally posted by Matt Browne


The list goes on and on.
 
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2013 at 6:28am
Abuayisha, thanks for admitting that I'm not xenophobic. I had a feeling that none of my posted sentences ever indicated that. I love and appreciate diversity. I think having different cultures enriches humanity. And I endorse multiculturalism as long as it's based on tolerance and mutual respect.

Smile


Edited by Matt Browne - 24 April 2013 at 6:33am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2013 at 2:27pm
Matt, are women and men equal?
الله
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Quote W.S. Replybullet Posted: 26 April 2013 at 1:57am
Matt Browne, I've read through this thread, including your list of key messages presented in Irshad Manji's two books, and I agree with them. I recently read her first book and I'm currently reading her second one. It is so very unfortunate that so few Muslims have the courage to speak out, instead of living in this constant denial and/or being silent because of fear.
Muslims! Especially you who've been such your whole lives: what do you think of Manji's key messages presented in Matt's list?! 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 26 April 2013 at 7:56am
W.S., I'm certainly not up for the task of addressing an entire list, which would require an essay, however I suggest for purposes of focus and clarity, that any "key message" or concerns of "constant denial" are taken one at a time in a thread other than "Quran and peace", and perhaps you'll get a more specific response to your question.  And Allah Knows Best.
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2013 at 2:22am
Originally posted by Rational

Matt, are women and men equal?


Equal in what sense? They both have 46 chromosomes. On one chromosome there are differences.

Or do you mean equal rights? Then the answer is yes.
 
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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