Greetings 786SalamKhan,

Yes, I have watched that debate before, and I found Evans to be more compelling than Ehrman.  I elaborated my reasons why at that time.  I don't know if it was posted on the forum, or if I kept my notes.  I do know what conclusion I reached.

Regardless, I still ask... Have you read the words of Jesus as they are recorded?
Is there anything in Jesus words as recorded that is not good?

I repeat myself;
"There have been many things said about Jesus and I have delved deeply into every thing that is said(and continue to do so), to weigh carefully whether the views I have held are clear and true.
It is this that allows me to realize that any one of us could find, in the end, that we have been wrong.
If anything saves me it may be my humility to accept this truth.
What is not wrong is what I find in God's Word... the Bible.
With Muhammad I gain nothing that I don't already have, without Jesus I lose everything."

I still conclude that;
"The only conclusive thing that I can always say is, who can argue with the teaching of Jesus?  Is there a single thing He taught, and brought to the world, that is not good?"

I find nothing of relevance that is disputable in the teaching, or life of Jesus, as it is recorded in the new testament.  If we follow the teaching, and way, of Jesus we are led to God.
If Muhammad was a prophet of God, then he too follows the teaching of Jesus, and thus is able to lead his people to God.  But you must know Jesus.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 12 February 2013 at 11:21am

Carinheart,
The funny thing is that he did not die, at least not by choice (remember his cries to God quoted in the Bible "...why have you forsaken me. He was killed, if we assume that for a second. There is a difference when someone kills someone vs someone giving his life willfully and that is called a suicide. I have not come across any verse in the OT yet that says that the Messiah will be killed!
There is a difference when someone asks for money from you nicely, vs rob you at gunpoint! According to your version he was killed at gunpoint or it's equivalent of that time. And do not forget he questioned his persecution. John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Thus we consult the Qruan, the only reliable, unchanged and true account of this matter:
"..but they killed him not, nor crucified him,.." 4:157
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 14 February 2013 at 12:07pm

Greetings Hasan,

⁴² Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.  (Luke)

³⁸ For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  ³⁹ And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.  ⁴⁰ And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

⁴¹ The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.  ⁴² And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?  (John)

Yes, He questioned the people, but never His Father who sent Him.  He gave His life, at the hands of the Jews and the Romans, in obedience to the will of the Father who sent Him.

⁴³ I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

³⁰ I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

³² There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.  ³³ Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

³⁶ But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

³⁷ And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Edited by Caringheart - 14 February 2013 at 4:01pm