IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim

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Webber

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Posted: 13 February 2013 at 8:19am

This thread is merely pointing out the inaccuracies and the prejudices of the
Bible and the Jews who corrupted it.

Looks more like it's pointing out more conjectures of the Muslims. You are pointing out what the Quran does not say and insisting it proves the Bible wrong.

That would be like saying the Bible is wrong because it does not approve of eating camels.

I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 13 February 2013 at 6:50pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad.

Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND.

"I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger".

Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be.

*********************

Originally posted by Reepicheep

In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell. As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell.

Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell? Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed?

""there is no man more dangerous than one who thinks he knows the will of God"

[/QUOTE]

Read what I've replied to Mr. Reepicheep. Everyting I've said is backed up by the Holy Qur'an. In it all disbelievers in Him will go to Hell. Those who associate partners to Him is a great sin as what you believe is.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 13 February 2013 at 9:33pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad.

Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND. "I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger". Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be.

Greetings Abu_Loren,

but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it? You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger. God by Himself isn't enough.

believe - declare - what's the difference?
semantics

Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says.
Doesn't make it right, good, and true.

Salaam,
CH

Edited by Caringheart - 13 February 2013 at 10:03pm

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:00am

Originally posted by Caringheart

What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is?

Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:06am

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.

What in particular are you referring to? Please tell us.

The link provides the names of five hadith collections and eight commentaries on the koran where it is stated that either the son was Isaac, or it could have been either son. Obviously, there is no agreement in Islam as to which son was to be sacrificed.

Reepicheep: you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals.

Abu Loren in reply: Where did this come from? What are you talking about?

The koran doesn't state which son was to be sacrificed, yet you absolutely refuse to consider the possibility that the son was Isaac. Why? It appears to me that it is hostility on your part towards Isaac. If that is not the reason, then what is it?

Why do you ignore all the hadith and commentaries which say it either was Isaac, or could have been Isaac???

Abu Loren wrote: Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation.

Then why do you have such hostility towards the muslims and Christians who say it was Isaac and not Ishmael???

Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that He has given human beings intellect, logic, reasoning etc and I choose to excercise it.

It makes no sense when Prophet Ibrahim was given Prophet Ishmael in old age that he would have to wait until Prophet Isaac was born for the sacrifice.

Can you imagine this scenario?

After being given a son in old age he is being asked to sacrifice that child. Hoe would you feel? Would you be upset? Would you think of disobeying God?

As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?

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Caringheart

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Posted: 14 February 2013 at 5:02pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is?

Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?

Greetings Abu_Loren,

"Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?"

Sorry, that made me laugh. No hate. Where do you come up with hate? I do wonder at such a statement.

I am taking into consideration the rest of what you say.
Is it possible to claim God without claiming Muhammad? and if not, why not?

Thanks,
CH

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 14 February 2013 at 6:40pm

Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?

According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed. I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 15 February 2013 at 1:49am

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?

According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed. I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?

Christians are so good at twisting people's words that they have made it into an art.

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Topic: The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
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Author	Message
Webber Senior Member Joined: 09 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 112	Posted: 13 February 2013 at 8:19am
	This thread is merely pointing out the inaccuracies and the prejudices of the Bible and the Jews who corrupted it. Looks more like it's pointing out more conjectures of the Muslims. You are pointing out what the Quran does not say and insisting it proves the Bible wrong. That would be like saying the Bible is wrong because it does not approve of eating camels.
	I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 13 February 2013 at 6:50pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad. Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND. "I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger". Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be. ******************* Originally posted by Reepicheep** In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell. As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell. Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell? Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed? ""there is no man more dangerous than one who thinks he knows the will of God" [/QUOTE] Read what I've replied to Mr. Reepicheep. Everyting I've said is backed up by the Holy Qur'an. In it all disbelievers in Him will go to Hell. Those who associate partners to Him is a great sin as what you believe is.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 13 February 2013 at 9:33pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad. Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND. "I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger". Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be. Greetings Abu_Loren, but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it? You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger. God by Himself isn't enough. believe - declare - what's the difference? semantics Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says. Doesn't make it right, good, and true. Salaam, CH Edited by Caringheart - 13 February 2013 at 10:03pm
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:00am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Greetings Abu_Loren, but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it? You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger. God by Himself isn't enough. believe - declare - what's the difference? semantics Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says. Doesn't make it right, good, and true. Salaam, CH What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is? Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?
	IP Logged

Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:06am
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Abu Loren wrote: It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link. What in particular are you referring to? Please tell us. The link provides the names of five hadith collections and eight commentaries on the koran where it is stated that either the son was Isaac, or it could have been either son. Obviously, there is no agreement in Islam as to which son was to be sacrificed. Reepicheep: you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals. Abu Loren in reply: Where did this come from? What are you talking about? The koran doesn't state which son was to be sacrificed, yet you absolutely refuse to consider the possibility that the son was Isaac. Why? It appears to me that it is hostility on your part towards Isaac. If that is not the reason, then what is it? Why do you ignore all the hadith and commentaries which say it either was Isaac, or could have been Isaac??? Abu Loren wrote: Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation. Then why do you have such hostility towards the muslims and Christians who say it was Isaac and not Ishmael??? Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that He has given human beings intellect, logic, reasoning etc and I choose to excercise it. It makes no sense when Prophet Ibrahim was given Prophet Ishmael in old age that he would have to wait until Prophet Isaac was born for the sacrifice. Can you imagine this scenario? After being given a son in old age he is being asked to sacrifice that child. Hoe would you feel? Would you be upset? Would you think of disobeying God? As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 14 February 2013 at 5:02pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is? Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why? Greetings Abu_Loren, "Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?" Sorry, that made me laugh. No hate. Where do you come up with hate? I do wonder at such a statement. I am taking into consideration the rest of what you say. Is it possible to claim God without claiming Muhammad? and if not, why not? Thanks, CH
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 14 February 2013 at 6:40pm
	Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this? According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed. I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 15 February 2013 at 1:49am
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this? According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed. I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet? Christians are so good at twisting people's words that they have made it into an art.
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