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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Topic: The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
    Posted: 08 February 2013 at 8:04pm

Alhamdulilahi Rabbil Alamin Ar Rahmanir Rahim

As’alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

 

 

Sahih International

 

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." 2:124

Undoubtedly the greatest trial of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was being asked to sacrifice his son. Unlike a normal human being however he was willing to do it for the love of his Lord. The Bible states that it was Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam) who was chosen for the sacrifice, this just does not make any sense. If Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam) was chosen then the impact and the seriousness of the situation would have been lost as there was another son. But if the first born son of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was chosen and he was the only son at the time, then imagine the heartache and confusion this would have caused Prophet Ibrahim. For one thing, Prophet Ishmael was conceived when he was old and was a miracle just as was the conception of Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam). Sacrificing Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam) just does not make any sense when there was already another son. But if the first born and the only son was being asked to be sacrificed then the whole story changes. The impact is not lost. Imagine the scenario, you’ve just been given a son in extreme old age and God asks you to sacrifice him. This would have tested him to the core of his soul. The reason that he was willing to go through with it shows us the character and the man that was Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam). He was the only person ever to be called the ‘friend’ of Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala.

Appropriately, the last statement from verse 2:124 clearly is meant to be for the Jews and Christians. They are the wrongdoers as they’ve changed the words of Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala to suit their tribal and ethnic superiority complex.

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Quote 786SalamKhan Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2013 at 12:11am
www.anusha.com/isaac.htm

"It is logically obvious that it was Ishmael and not Isaac who was to be sacrificed. Consider the alternative: If it was Isaac, then Isaac was 13 and Ishmael was 27, Abraham was 113 and Sarah was 103. It is unlikely that a 113 year old man could climb a mountain, split wood, build an alter, tie up his son, and later kill a ram, all of which the Bible says that Abraham did on the occasion in question.

Moreover, if he did all that, why did not Abraham call upon his then 27-year-old son, Ishmael, for assistance?"

www.inter-islam.org
knowingallah.com
www.anusha.com/isaac.htm
www.mushafiqsultan.com/isaiah-42-describes-prophet-muhammad-al-mustafaa
arabicpaper.tripod.com/prophecy.html
www.tafseer-raheemi.com
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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2013 at 5:59am
Nowhere in the koran does it indicate which son was to be sacrificed, whereas the bible clearly states that it was Isaac.
 
********************
 
I'm curious, why is it so important to some muslims which son Abraham was to sacrifice?  What is so offensive about Abraham sacrificing Isaac instead of Ishmael? 
 
In Islam, is it a condition of salvation for muslims to believe that it was Ishmael who was to be sacrificed (i.e., can a muslim get into heaven, if the muslim believes it was Isaac and not Ishmael who was to be sacrificed?).
 
Do muslims hate Isaac for some reason???
 
 


Edited by Reepicheep - 09 February 2013 at 6:02am
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2013 at 1:57am
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Nowhere in the koran does it indicate which son was to be sacrificed, whereas the bible clearly states that it was Isaac.
 
********************
 
I'm curious, why is it so important to some muslims which son Abraham was to sacrifice?  What is so offensive about Abraham sacrificing Isaac instead of Ishmael? 
 
In Islam, is it a condition of salvation for muslims to believe that it was Ishmael who was to be sacrificed (i.e., can a muslim get into heaven, if the muslim believes it was Isaac and not Ishmael who was to be sacrificed?).
 
Do muslims hate Isaac for some reason???
 
 
 
It matters mr. Reepicheep because it shows clearly that the Bible is corrupted.
 
I notice that you have been a member on this forum for a while and you STILL haven't noticed that ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions unlike the Christians as has been clearly demonstrated here on this forum.
 
I sincerely hope that you open your eyes and heart and start to learn something. You've been here long enough.
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2013 at 3:09pm

Abu Loren wrote:  it shows clearly that the Bible is corrupted.

So your logic, such as it is, is as follows: the bible states that Isaac was to be sacrificed.  The koran doesn't contradict this.  Therefore, the bible is wrong.
 
Kinda strange logic, if you ask me, and not very logical.
 
**********************************
 
It may interest you to know that many, many muslim scholars either say it was Isaac, or say they don't know which son was to be sacrificed.  For example:
 
 
The Tafsir of the verses cited above has been described on the assumption that the son who was to be slaughtered was Sayyidna Isma'il (A.S). But, the truth of the matter is that there is a severe difference of opinion among commentators and historians about it. That this son was Sayyidna Ishaq (A.S) has been reported from among the Sahabah by Sayyidna 'Umar, Sayyidna 'Ali, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, Sayyidna 'Abbas, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn 'Abbas and Sayyidna Ka'b al-Ahbar (R.A), and from among the Tabi'in by Sa'id Ibn Jubayr, Qatadah, Masriq, 'Ikrimah, 'Ata', Muqatil, Zuhri and Suddiyy (R.A).
 
 
Abu Loren wrote: ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions
 
So you say.  Yet, you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals.  Curious...
 
*********************
 
In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell.  As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell.
 
Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell?  Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed? 


Edited by Reepicheep - 11 February 2013 at 3:23pm
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2013 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote:  it shows clearly that the Bible is corrupted.

So your logic, such as it is, is as follows: the bible states that Isaac was to be sacrificed.  The koran doesn't contradict this.  Therefore, the bible is wrong.
 
Kinda strange logic, if you ask me, and not very logical.
 
**********************************
 
 
In the Holy Qur'an we are told that mankind was given knowlede, wisdom and intellect. We have to use it.
 
 
It may interest you to know that many, many muslim scholars either say it was Isaac, or say they don't know which son was to be sacrificed.  For example:
 
 
The Tafsir of the verses cited above has been described on the assumption that the son who was to be slaughtered was Sayyidna Isma'il (A.S). But, the truth of the matter is that there is a severe difference of opinion among commentators and historians about it. That this son was Sayyidna Ishaq (A.S) has been reported from among the Sahabah by Sayyidna 'Umar, Sayyidna 'Ali, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, Sayyidna 'Abbas, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn 'Abbas and Sayyidna Ka'b al-Ahbar (R.A), and from among the Tabi'in by Sa'id Ibn Jubayr, Qatadah, Masriq, 'Ikrimah, 'Ata', Muqatil, Zuhri and Suddiyy (R.A).
 
 
 
It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.
 
 
Abu Loren wrote: ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions
 
So you say.  Yet, you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals.  Curious...
 
*********************
 
 
Where did this come from? What are you talking about?
 
 
In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell.  As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell.
 
Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell?  Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed? 
 
I've told you once before in another thread it's not from my own authority. Allah Subhana Wa T'ala in the Holy Qur'an tells us that all that associate partners to His rule and worship will go to hell. The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) states in a hadith that anything not sanctioned by him is an innovation and all innovators will go to hell who deviate from the Straight Path which he helped to establish.
 
Now you are putting words in my mouth with your last paragraph. Don't worry though as this is typical of what the Christians do on a daily basis. Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation. This thread is merely pointing out the inaccuracies and the prejudices of the
Bible and the Jews who corrupted it.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2013 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

 Abu Loren wrote: ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions
 
So you say.  Yet, you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals.  Curious...


Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad.
 
*********************
 
Originally posted by Reepicheep

In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell.  As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell.
 
Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell?  Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed? 

""there is no man more dangerous than one who thinks he knows the will of God"



Edited by Caringheart - 11 February 2013 at 8:20pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 13 February 2013 at 5:24am
 Abu Loren wrote: It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.
 
What in particular are you referring to?  Please tell us.
 
The link provides the names of five hadith collections and eight commentaries on the koran where it is stated that either the son was Isaac, or it could have been either son.  Obviously, there is no agreement in Islam as to which son was to be sacrificed.
 
 
Reepicheep: you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals. 
 
Abu Loren in reply: Where did this come from? What are you talking about?
 
The koran doesn't state which son was to be sacrificed, yet you absolutely refuse to consider the possibility that the son was Isaac.  Why?  It appears to me that it is hostility on your part towards Isaac.  If that is not the reason, then what is it?
 
Why do you ignore all the hadith and commentaries which say it either was Isaac, or could have been Isaac???
 
  
Abu Loren wrote: Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation.
 
Then why do you have such hostility towards the muslims and Christians who say it was Isaac and not Ishmael???
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