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Interfaith Dialogue
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Topic: Not a Christian?
    Posted: 05 February 2013 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by nirvana

who goes to heaven.

this is for all christians and muslims people. will the most compassionate/honest/polite hindu/Buddhist go to hell while the most treacherous/lying/rude/murderous etc muslim/christian goes to heaven?


A Christian who is murderous/rude/lying/treacherous and doesn't try to change it is a person who is consciously and willingly living in sin and does not have the Holy Spirit inside him/her. Regardless of what he or she says, that person does not believe in Christ or try to follow Him, and therefore is not a Christian.


Hello TG,

You said the above in another thread.

Does this mean to believe in Christ is same as to follow him, and any who does not practice christianity cannot claim to be believing in him? Is this correct?

Are you saying that there are no non-practicing christians. In other words either christians are practicing their faith or they are not even regarded as christians?

Thank you.

Edited by Nausheen - 05 February 2013 at 9:55pm
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2013 at 11:58pm
If I may answer until TG does from my own experience...
Your first question is correct.
 
I took my wife to a non-practicing Christian retirement party. Of course it was held in a bar/restaurant. Much to my surprise, as I opened the door, two men walked out. I know them, I know their wives/children, I even know which mosque they go to. They were both glassey eyed, as in too much to legally drive home. Are they going to heaven?
 
I believe there to be a majority of non-practicing, and semi-practicing Christians will learn the truth on judgement day. They won't like what happens next.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 12:53am

Originally posted by TG

Regardless of what he or she says, that person does not believe in Christ or try to follow Him, and therefore is not a Christian.
Originally posted by Nausheen

Does this mean to believe in Christ is same as to follow him, and any who does not practice christianity cannot claim to be believing in him? Is this correct?

Are you saying that there are no non-practicing christians. In other words either christians are practicing their faith or they are not even regarded as christians?

Gidday Nausheen. Welcome back!

I would agree with your interpretation, but only if we suppose that:
(a) "try to follow" means the same as "practice"; and
(b) "or" means the same as "and",

But hey, that's just the pedant in me.   Clown

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 4:43am
Originally posted by nospam001

Originally posted by TG

Regardless of what he or she says, that person does not believe in Christ or try to follow Him, and therefore is not a Christian.
Originally posted by Nausheen

Does this mean to believe in Christ is same as to follow him, and any who does not practice christianity cannot claim to be believing in him? Is this correct?


Are you saying that there are no non-practicing christians. In other words either christians are practicing their faith or they are not even regarded as christians?

Gidday Nausheen. Welcome back!


I would agree with your interpretation, but only if we suppose that:(a) "try to follow" means the same as "practice"; and(b) "or" means the same as "and",


But hey, that's just the pedant in me.   [IMG]http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Clown" />



Thank you for the welcome and the response NS001,

So, you do not have any bad christians, right? There is no weak believer in christianity. One is either a believer or a non-believer, correct? Do all christians believe the same?

Why are you an agonist? were you a christian who did not follow so you were rejected by your community?




Edited by Nausheen - 06 February 2013 at 4:45am
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 4:51am
Originally posted by Webber



If I may answer until TG does from my own experience...
Your first question is correct.
 
I took my wife to a non-practicing Christian retirement party. Of course it was held in a bar/restaurant. Much to my surprise, as I opened the door, two men walked out. I know them, I know their wives/children, I even know which mosque they go to. They were both glassey eyed, as in too much to legally drive home. Are they going to heaven?
 


Is that a question? I dont know. Im not in a position to decide about anyone like that - this is how we learn not to judge people in Islam. That is why am asking what is the concept in christianity.


Originally posted by Webber

I believe there to be a majority of non-practicing, and semi-practicing Christians will learn the truth on judgement day. They won't like what happens next.


What will happen on the judgement day is not what I was asking. If they do not practice, does that mean they do not even believe?

If someone has hurt you and comes and says I did not want to hurt you, will you believe him or will you say, since he did hurt you, then that is exactly what he had wanted to do?

So people are always in control of their actions, and the bad guy is a bad guy, while the good guy is a good guy? Is that correct?

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 5:14am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by nirvana

who goes to heaven.

this is for all christians and muslims people. will the most compassionate/honest/polite hindu/Buddhist go to hell while the most treacherous/lying/rude/murderous etc muslim/christian goes to heaven?


A Christian who is murderous/rude/lying/treacherous and doesn't try to change it is a person who is consciously and willingly living in sin and does not have the Holy Spirit inside him/her. Regardless of what he or she says, that person does not believe in Christ or try to follow Him, and therefore is not a Christian.


Originally posted by Nausheen

Hello TG,

You said the above in another thread.

Does this mean to believe in Christ is same as to follow him, and any who does not practice christianity cannot claim to be believing in him? Is this correct?

Are you saying that there are no non-practicing christians. In other words either christians are practicing their faith or they are not even regarded as christians?

Thank you.


Salaam Alaikum Nausheen, and thank you for the question.

I think believing in Christ means trying to follow Him, yes. A person who consciously lives in sin and does not try to change and in some cases does not even see it as wrong, or even worse a person who does horrible things like wage wars or abuse children in the name of Jesus or the Christian faith- that person is I believe not a Christian.

I think some Christians struggle with sin more effectively than others do and take prayer and other things Jesus required more seriously than others do, and others less so. As we are all sinners, we all need God's grace and forgiveness and it isn't up to us to condemn others.

I think a Christian can definitely struggle with things like alcholol, drugs, pornography, anger, homosexuality, greed, many other things... but the key thing is that he or she struggles with these things and recognizes they are sins and comes forward to God and repents when he or she falls and tries not to again... and this may require a lot of falling and coming back up and asking for forgiveness and trying to follow better and then falling and asking for forgiveness and trying again... I know a person in my church who was an alcoholic before he became a believer and it took him several years after that to kick the habit... now he never touches a drink, even in moderation. I will be very honest with you, before I became a believer I was using pornography and became a addicted to it... I struggled with pornography for a very long time after I put my faith in Jesus and this terrible habit was eventually broken and I am free from it alhamdullilah. It required a lot of prayer, asking God for forgiveness when I fell, seeking the help of my brothers in Christ to whom I was accountable, setting filters on my computer, talking and praying with my pastor... the addiction was eventually broken and there was a lot of work involved in doing it. Others may struggle with a vice their entire lives and never be entirely free of it.

Christians are not sin-free. But it is one thing to struggle against a sin (and we are all sinners) and another thing to not even acknowledge something is wrong. It's one thing to shamefully recognize one has sinned against God and to decide to do everything to not do so again; and another to say "hey this (insert sinful habit here) is ok. It's "natural"... "everyone does it"... God doesn't even care anyways..."

Do you see what I am saying?

A Christian is someone who has God in the forefront of their lives and tries to live accordingly to what He wants us to do. Some are better at this than others. A lot of us need to do a lot more Bible reading, prayer, fasting, serving the poor, fighting with things that are sinful that we are right now.

The key thing is to put one's faith in Jesus. Putting one's faith in Jesus includes following Him, which involves putting God at the centre of one's life. This takes a lot of struggle and work, and we will always fall short in some ways, which is why we need God's grace.

Hopefully this helped a bit, sorry for the really long answer.
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

So, you do not have any bad christians, right? There is no weak believer in christianity. One is either a believer or a non-believer, correct? Do all christians believe the same?
In my experience there are lots of different types of Christians and plenty of 'weak' ones (in the sense that they appreciate the bible as a work of literature). But I gather your question is directed at fundamentalists, who would have a different opinion.
Why are you an agonist?
I don't see myself as a contestant, if that's what you mean by agonist. I am not trying to "win" something. To the contrary, I am happy to have my errors corrected, if done without malice.
were you a christian who did not follow so you were rejected by your community?
There was no rejecting or rebelling in my case. It's quite normal over here to be agnostic. As far as I can recall, even my grandparents did not attend church - aside from the obligatory "hatch, match & dispatch" services.  Smile
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2013 at 5:35pm
Greetings Nausheen,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in.  I just had a couple of thoughts.
"Do all christians believe the same?"
I think I can safely say that no, all Christians do not believe the same.
Just like Sunni's, Shia's, Sufi's, and Wahabbi's don't believe the same but I am sure that there are 'believers'(and God will be the judge) in each of those groups.

I think what we first have to understand is that 'Christian' is just a label put on people, and Christianity is a name given to a religion, and neither one can, or should, be used to define who an individual is and what is in their heart.  The heart will reflect the true self and God always knows the true self, and God alone can judge.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 06 February 2013 at 5:36pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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