IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin

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fiqhenglish
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Topic: The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin
Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:24am

1. The one who stops performing As-Ṣalāh due to denying its obligation:
If he is ignorant about the issue, then he is informed. Subsequently if he persists on rejecting its
obligation, he is a disbeliever, belying Allah Almighty His Messenger (may the peace and blessings of
Allah be upon him) and the consensus of the Muslims.

2. The one who stops performing prayer out of laziness:
Whosoever stops performing As-Ṣalāh intentionally out of laziness has disbelieved. It is
upon the ruler to order him to perform As-Ṣalāh , and advise him to repent from this for three days.
Subsequently if he repents and returns to making the As-Ṣalāh , he is spared. If he does not return to
prayer he is killed for apostasy. This in accordance with the Prophet’s (may the peace and blessings of
Allah be upon him)statement: “The covenant which is between us and them (the disbelievers) is the
prayer; so whosoever leaves it has disbelieved.”(1) Also his saying: “Indeed between a man and shirk and
kufr is stopping of performing As-Ṣalāh

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abuayisha

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Posted: 04 February 2013 at 8:07am

Indeed it is advisable to not only quote the source of the weak opinion above, but also which scholars of Islamic law are in agreement. You may not be aware that scholars differ with respect to death for apostasy, and there is a wide discussion on this topic, that your two paragraphs certainly do not reflect. Lastly, outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims". And Allah Knows Best.

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 04 February 2013 at 9:55am

Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims".

Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct. People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam.

For example, approximately 200 million of the world's muslims are Twelver Shiite. Twelvers believe in praying three times a day (instead of the five times a day Sunnis pray), and add an additional clause onto the Shahada:

There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God, and Ali is the friend of God.

A question to ponder: do either of these differences make Twelvers apostates of Islam?

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Nausheen
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Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:22pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims".

Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct. People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam.

So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects?

What do you mean by twelver shiite?

Shia join prayers, so they have reduced the number of times they pray, not the actual number of prayers.

Sects dont make apostates.

Ali (may his face be blessed) was the fourth kalif and is held in much high regard amongst sunni muslims as well.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 05 February 2013 at 8:29am

Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects? What do you mean by twelver shiite?

I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims. It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs. For example, check out the following two webpages:

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida

And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites. For example:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html

which reads, in part:

(January 11, 2013): The death toll from a series of deadly bombings across Pakistan rose today to 120, police said, marking one of the deadliest days the country has seen in years... Most of the dead were Shia Muslims killed in twin bombings at a billiards hall — a frightening reminder that Sunni extremists are increasingly targeting them.

You need look no further than this forum to uncover Sunni muslims who are critical of Shiite beliefs. For example: on January 18, 2013 in the thread "The Final Hurdle to Becoming a Muslim is", Abu Loren wrote:

With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam.

Edited by Reepicheep - 05 February 2013 at 8:33am

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Nausheen
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Posted: 05 February 2013 at 9:38pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects? What do you mean by twelver shiite? I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims. It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs. For example, check out the following two webpages:

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida

And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites. For example:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html

which reads, in part:

With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam.

Save yourself the trouble of explaining to me the difference between shia and sunni.

For now know that a 'no concensus between muslims' does not essentially make sects.
Between sunnis there are 4 fiqhs and sometimes they do not have a concesus opinion on a particular matter - still they are all sunnis.

'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term. On Islamicity we discourage such expressions towards anybody.

peace.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Reepicheep

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Joined: 06 November 2006
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Posts: 235

Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14am

Nausheen wrote: 'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term.

I'm curious to know where you got the idea that "twelver" is a derogatory term. I've used the term many times on the www.shiachat.com forum, and I can't recall anyone being offended. In fact, for over ten years at work I shared an office with a Twelver of Iranian ancestry, and he never indicated to me that the term Twelver is an insult.

Basically, the term "Twelver" refers to the fact that this sect of Islam believes that there were 12 divinely chosen leaders after Mohammad. See, for example, the following website for more details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

If you personally know of muslims who consider it an insult to be called Twelvers, it would be interesting if you could invite them to add their posts to this thread.

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Author	Message
fiqhenglish Male Islam Newbie Joined: 22 January 2013 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 25	Topic: The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:24am
	1. The one who stops performing As-Ṣalāh due to denying its obligation: If he is ignorant about the issue, then he is informed. Subsequently if he persists on rejecting its obligation, he is a disbeliever, belying Allah Almighty His Messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and the consensus of the Muslims. 2. The one who stops performing prayer out of laziness: Whosoever stops performing As-Ṣalāh intentionally out of laziness has disbelieved. It is upon the ruler to order him to perform As-Ṣalāh , and advise him to repent from this for three days. Subsequently if he repents and returns to making the As-Ṣalāh , he is spared. If he does not return to prayer he is killed for apostasy. This in accordance with the Prophet’s (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)statement: “The covenant which is between us and them (the disbelievers) is the prayer; so whosoever leaves it has disbelieved.”(1) Also his saying: “Indeed between a man and shirk and kufr is stopping of performing As-Ṣalāh
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Online Posts: 4014	Posted: 04 February 2013 at 8:07am
	Indeed it is advisable to not only quote the source of the weak opinion above, but also which scholars of Islamic law are in agreement. You may not be aware that scholars differ with respect to death for apostasy, and there is a wide discussion on this topic, that your two paragraphs certainly do not reflect. Lastly, outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims". And Allah Knows Best.
	IP Logged

Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 04 February 2013 at 9:55am
	Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims". Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct. People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam. For example, approximately 200 million of the world's muslims are Twelver Shiite. Twelvers believe in praying three times a day (instead of the five times a day Sunnis pray), and add an additional clause onto the Shahada: There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God, and Ali is the friend of God. A question to ponder: do either of these differences make Twelvers apostates of Islam?
	IP Logged

Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:22pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims". Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct. People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam. So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects? What do you mean by twelver shiite? Shia join prayers, so they have reduced the number of times they pray, not the actual number of prayers. Sects dont make apostates. Ali (may his face be blessed) was the fourth kalif and is held in much high regard amongst sunni muslims as well.
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 05 February 2013 at 8:29am
	Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects? What do you mean by twelver shiite? I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims. It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs. For example, check out the following two webpages: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites. For example: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html which reads, in part: (January 11, 2013): The death toll from a series of deadly bombings across Pakistan rose today to 120, police said, marking one of the deadliest days the country has seen in years... Most of the dead were Shia Muslims killed in twin bombings at a billiards hall — a frightening reminder that Sunni extremists are increasingly targeting them. You need look no further than this forum to uncover Sunni muslims who are critical of Shiite beliefs. For example: on January 18, 2013 in the thread "The Final Hurdle to Becoming a Muslim is", Abu Loren wrote: With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam. Edited by Reepicheep - 05 February 2013 at 8:33am
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 05 February 2013 at 9:38pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects? What do you mean by twelver shiite? I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims. It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs. For example, check out the following two webpages: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites. For example: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html which reads, in part: (January 11, 2013): The death toll from a series of deadly bombings across Pakistan rose today to 120, police said, marking one of the deadliest days the country has seen in years... Most of the dead were Shia Muslims killed in twin bombings at a billiards hall — a frightening reminder that Sunni extremists are increasingly targeting them. You need look no further than this forum to uncover Sunni muslims who are critical of Shiite beliefs. For example: on January 18, 2013 in the thread "The Final Hurdle to Becoming a Muslim is", Abu Loren wrote: With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam. Save yourself the trouble of explaining to me the difference between shia and sunni. For now know that a 'no concensus between muslims' does not essentially make sects. Between sunnis there are 4 fiqhs and sometimes they do not have a concesus opinion on a particular matter - still they are all sunnis. 'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term. On Islamicity we discourage such expressions towards anybody. peace.
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14am
	Nausheen wrote: 'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term. I'm curious to know where you got the idea that "twelver" is a derogatory term. I've used the term many times on the www.shiachat.com forum, and I can't recall anyone being offended. In fact, for over ten years at work I shared an office with a Twelver of Iranian ancestry, and he never indicated to me that the term Twelver is an insult. Basically, the term "Twelver" refers to the fact that this sect of Islam believes that there were 12 divinely chosen leaders after Mohammad. See, for example, the following website for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver If you personally know of muslims who consider it an insult to be called Twelvers, it would be interesting if you could invite them to add their posts to this thread.
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