Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: The Ishmael Complex Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 6 Next >>
Author Message
Power of GOD
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 75
Quote Power of GOD Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2014 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Alhamdulilahi Rabbil Alamin Ar Rahman ir Rahim

As’alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

 

Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam) was the first born son of the beloved Prophet of God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam). Being the first born, Ishmael (Alyhi Salaam) was especially loved by his father as Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was getting on years.  Prophet Ibrahim made a supplication to God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala to bless his son and his progeny.

Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala heard his pleas and replied :-

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

In the Holy Qur’an we are told by God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala that He ordered Prophets Ibrahim and Ishmael (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them both) to buid the Kaba’a in Mecca. This is where Hagar and Ishmael were ordered to be settled. We can deduce from this blessing that God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala would send Prophets and Messengers to the descendants of Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam). We can deduce from the Holy Qur’an that Prophets Hud, Salih, Shua’ib etc (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon them) were the direct descendants of Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam). The final Messenger and Prophet of this line being Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).

God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala does not lie. Christians would like to demonise Ishmael and his mother Hagar. They say that because Hagar was the handmaid of Sarah, Prophet Ishmael was born into bondage and has lost his claim to be the son of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam). They fail to realize or even accept the fact that both sons of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) Prophet Ishmael and Prophet Isaac (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them both) were blessed by God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala.

This deep rooted hatred for the first born son of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) is unfounded. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that God Allah Subhana Wa Ta’ala would only bless Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Slaam) and his progeny.

The Jew and the Arab are indeed brothers.

 
The History of Tabari claims that the first Arabic speakers were Shem’s grandchildren and great-grandchildren.  Abraham, however, was nine generations after Shem.“God made ‘Ad, ‘Ubayl, Thamud, Judays, ‘Imlaq, Tasm, Umaym, and the children of Joktan b. Eber b. Shelah b. Arpachsad b. Shem b. Noah able to understand Arabic.” (History of Tabari, Vol. 2, p. 18)

“It is said that ‘Imliq was the first to speak Arabic when they departed from Babylon.  They and Jurhum are called the ‘aribah Arabs.” (Hist. Tabari, Vol. 2, pp. 17-18)

 The Arab genealogies were written over 2000 years after the birth of Ishmael, and they did not have reliable genealogies past Muhammad’s forefather Adnan.

 
Genealogical information was so scarce and unreliable that Muhammad needed a “revelation” to find out he was from Mudar

    “Ma'n Ibn 'Isa al-Ashja'i al-Qazzaz (silk-merchant) informed us; he said: Mu'awiyah Ibn Salih informed us on the authority of Yahya Ibn Jabir who had seen some Companions of the Prophet and said: The people of Banu Fuhayrah came to the Prophet and said to him: You belong to us. He replied: Verily, (the archangel) Gabriel has informed me that I belong to Mudar.” (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Volume I, p. 4; this quote was taken from Sam Shamoun’s article “‘Ishmael Is Not the Father Of Muhammad”)

    Muhammad’s alleged revelatory information was about as far as Muslim scholars could agree upon

    “The genealogists do not differ concerning the descent of our Prophet Muhammad as far as Ma’add b. ‘Adnan.” (Hist. of Tabari, Vol. 6, p. 37)

    Examples of conflicting traditions past Ma’add b. Adnan

      Al-Zubayr b. Bakkar – Yahya b. al-Miqdad al-Zam’i – his paternal uncle Musa b. Ya’qub b. ‘Abdullah b. Wahb b. Zam’ah – his maternal aunt Umm Salamah, the wife of the Prophet: “I heard the messenger of God say, “Ma’add b. ‘Adnan b. Udad b. Zand b. Yara b. A’raq al-Thara.” (History of Tabari, vol. 6, p. 38)

      Al-Harith-Muhammad b. Sa’d – Hisham b. Muhammad – Muhammad b. ‘Abd al-Rahman al- ‘Ajlani – Musa b. Ya’qub al-Zami – his paternal aunt – her grandmother Bint al-Miqdad b. al-Aswad al-Bahrani: The Messenger of God said, “Ma’add b. ‘Adnan b. Udad b. Yara b. A’raq al-Thara” (History of Tabari, vol. 6, p. 38)

In regard to the time before Adnan Muslims have a very difficult time tying Adnan to Abraham.  Notice they have only a few names (9 while some say only 6) in a list that should span over a thousand years!

Not all Arabs are descendants of Ishmael.  Some Arabs probably are descendants of Ishmael, but it is hard to say who they are since: There were no solid records;  Genealogical questions were answered by consulting an idol;  Islam’s own sources claim that Ishmael’s descendants were scattered.   Muhammad needed to claim a revelation to justify himself being a descendant of Mudar;  There exists no clear link between Mudar and Ishmael.

 

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ishmael. She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers:

IP IP Logged
Abu Loren
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Arab Emirates
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1165
Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 12:07am
You can copy and paste Sam Shamoun and any other anti Muslim all you want but that doesn't make it right.
IP IP Logged
Power of GOD
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 75
Quote Power of GOD Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 3:46am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

You can copy and paste Sam Shamoun and any other anti Muslim all you want but that doesn't make it right.
 
It doesn't matter where I get it is the truth is the truth no matter where and how Sam Shamoun eyes is very wide open so is the muslims who accept Christ as thier saviour and convert to Christianity.
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:19am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

You can copy and paste Sam Shamoun and any other anti Muslim all you want but that doesn't make it right.


LOL Well, what else do you expect him to do?  Some people prefer to sit back and be spoon-fed a bunch of lies instead of doing honest research.  They need to feel that everyone else is wrong, and they are right.  They need to satisfy their egos!
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Power of GOD
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 75
Quote Power of GOD Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Abu Loren

You can copy and paste Sam Shamoun and any other anti Muslim all you want but that doesn't make it right.


LOL Well, what else do you expect him to do?  Some people prefer to sit back and be spoon-fed a bunch of lies instead of doing honest research.  They need to feel that everyone else is wrong, and they are right.  They need to satisfy their egos!
 
Okay how did you discover that islam is true and Christianity was false please tell me were you born a muslim or were converted to islam tell me you are a very inteligent person do you think God will start a false religion that overshadow the world and after 500 years discovered that he made a huge mistake and started a new religion please answer my question.
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by Power of God

Okay how did you discover that islam is true and Christianity was false please tell me were you born a muslim or were converted to islam tell me you are a very inteligent person do you think God will start a false religion that overshadow the world and after 500 years discovered that he made a huge mistake and started a new religion please answer my question.

 
I determined this by doing research. You know, reading scholarly books, and doing some actual investigation, instead of blindly copying material from the internet written by biased pseudo-scholars like your idol Sam Shamoun. 

Anyone who reads the Bible with objectivity would realize that it is a book which is full of historical and scientific errors, exaggerations, myths and contradictions.  This can be plainly observed.  Of course, people like you have been brain-washed from the get-go.  You don't see the clear evidence of the Bible's less than reputable material.


Edited by islamispeace - 15 August 2014 at 6:30pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

I determined this by doing research. You know, reading scholarly books, and doing some actual investigation, instead of blindly copying material from the internet written by biased pseudo-scholars like your idol Sam Shamoun. 

Anyone who reads the Bible with objectivity would realize that it is a book which is full of historical and scientific errors, exaggerations, myths and contradictions.  This can be plainly observed.  Of course, people like you have been brain-washed from the get-go.  You don't see the clear evidence of the Bible's less than reputable material.

 
By the way, you can check out my blog to see several articles I have published on the Bible and the Quran:

http://quranandbible.blogspot.com/


Edited by islamispeace - 15 August 2014 at 7:26pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Power of GOD
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 75
Quote Power of GOD Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2014 at 12:33am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Power of God

Okay how did you discover that islam is true and Christianity was false please tell me were you born a muslim or were converted to islam tell me you are a very inteligent person do you think God will start a false religion that overshadow the world and after 500 years discovered that he made a huge mistake and started a new religion please answer my question.
 
I determined this by doing research. You know, reading scholarly books, and doing some actual investigation, instead of blindly copying material from the internet written by biased pseudo-scholars like your idol Sam Shamoun. 

Anyone who reads the Bible with objectivity would realize that it is a book which is full of historical and scientific errors, exaggerations, myths and contradictions.  This can be plainly observed.  Of course, people like you have been brain-washed from the get-go.  You don't see the clear evidence of the Bible's less than reputable material.
 That doesn't answer my question, why would God start a false religion and the he discovered that he made a mistake? Do you think God will do that answer this for me please.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 6 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com