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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by TG12345


If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier?

Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words?
When King Tut was killed, it's widely believed that he was a teenager at the time. So the answer is he had time to grow.
 
 
Why do you need to find someone 90 feet tall to disprove what Muhammad said?
 
Because by faith I can believe in this statement. You on the other hand want to disprove it and for that purpose you need to find the skeleton of a90 feet man. Why do you find it hard to believe this?
 


That statement is quite simply not true. People's heights had gone up and down between the time of Adam's creation and the 7th century AD, due to a variety of factors. However, they have not been decreasing continuously. My "useless data" indicates that at least for several centuries between the creation of Adam and the 7th century, the height of human beings at time rose and at other times decreased. This shows that people have not been continuously been getting smaller until the 7th century.
 
 
Like I said you can't produce data that only compares a few generations. Do you believe it's possible that a grandfather who is tall, his son who is short and his grandson who is tall can occur within just three generations?
 
 

Of course not. I'm not the one who claims they have been continuously decreasing in size, and I don't believe the person who made that claim was a prophet.
 
In that case, why don't you just get lost? Stop trying to disprove Islam and to discredit the holy Prophet of God (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). I wish I could use stronger language on this forum.
 
 

He was an intelligent man and he sincerely believed he was serving and following God. However, some of the things he said were clearly false. This is one of them.

 
It's only your opinion. So you can keep it, no probs. He was only a warner so those who want to believe then believe and those who want to disbelieve then disbelieve. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala told Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) not to cry for the disbelievers as hi only duty was to convey the message.
 

Does your faith allow you to assume you will enter Heaven?
 
No. What I meant was that ALL humanity from Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) to whoever the last person to die will be in rows in front of our Maker before Judgement. I was just hoping that I'd get a glimpse of him so I can see what the father humanity looked like. :)
If you really believe this to be true, you may want to consider to start acting like a Muslim when you interact with non-Muslims.
I'm trying ringo. I'm really trying hard. But when I come across people like you who has zero knowledge of Islam and trying to preach it to Muslims it makes my blood boil. That's when I turn Mujahideen and wish there was a bomb nearby.


However, if you really want to get to Paradise and see Adam and Moses and others of God's followers, you need to put your faith in Christ.
 
I really want to see Paradise ringo, hence the reason for my conversion. At least I have 1 chance of being forgiven now. I don't associate anybody with God Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Maker of heaven and earth. To Him belongs all the dominion and Majesty. There is none comparable to Him and he forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills.
 
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 02 February 2013 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by TG12345


If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier?

Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words?
Originally posted by Abu Loren

When King Tut was killed, it's widely believed that he was a teenager at the time. So the answer is he had time to grow.

Good point, actually.

Unlike king Tutankhamun, Ramses II was not a teenager when he died. He was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

He lived 700 years before Rome was a Republic and almost 1200 years before it became an Empire. Yet he was shorter than the average Roman soldier. The book describing the height of Roman soldiers being 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet was written in the 4th century AD.

Another interesting discovery is that of the Terracota Army- thousands of life sized statues of Chinese soldiers made during the time of Emperor Qin, who lived in the 3rd century BC. The statues of the men range from 5 feet 8 inches to 6 feet 2 inches, with the commanders being 6 feet 3 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

Ramses II was shorter than them, too. So was his father, Seti I who was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.reference.com/browse/Seti+I

Nesyamun was an Egyptian pagan priest who lived in 1100 BC. His mummy was 5 feet 6 inches.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/articles/2008/08/14/history_nesyamun_feature.shtml


King Thutmose the IIIrd, who lived in the 15th century BC (prior to Tutankhamun, Ramses II, the Roman Army or Nesyamun)... was barely 5 feet tall.

http://ancienthistory.netscype.com/article/thutmose-iii-interesting-facts

Lindow Man, a mummy of a man who lived between 2 BC and 119 AD in Great Britain, was 168 centimetres, or approximately 5 feet 6 inches tall. Yet only 3-4 centuries afterwards, the average height of Roman soldiers ranged from 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet!


And Muhammad claimed people have been getting shorter throughout history up to his time!

 
[/QUOTE]
 
Originally posted by TG12345

Why do you need to find someone 90 feet tall to disprove what Muhammad said?
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Because by faith I can believe in this statement. You on the other hand want to disprove it and for that purpose you need to find the skeleton of a90 feet man. Why do you find it hard to believe this?
 

If I wanted to disprove that people are shorter than Adam allegedly was, a 90 foot skeleton would indeed be necessary.

However, that is not what I am trying to do.

I am disproving the statement that people have been continually diminishing in height up to the time of Muhammad.

If that were true, you would not be finding mummies of Ancient Egyptians who lived a millennia before De Re Militari was written who were almost all shorter than the minimal height of a Roman soldier!

Why do I find it hard to believe that people had been diminishing in stature up to the time of Muhammad? Because they hadn't!

Originally posted by TG12345

That statement is quite simply not true. People's heights had gone up and down between the time of Adam's creation and the 7th century AD, due to a variety of factors. However, they have not been decreasing continuously. My "useless data" indicates that at least for several centuries between the creation of Adam and the 7th century, the height of human beings at time rose and at other times decreased. This shows that people have not been continuously been getting smaller until the 7th century.
 
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Like I said you can't produce data that only compares a few generations. Do you believe it's possible that a grandfather who is tall, his son who is short and his grandson who is tall can occur within just three generations?

The Egyptian pharaohs who reigned before 1200 BC and the Roman soldiers of the 5th century AD lived more than "a few generations" apart.
 [/QUOTE]

Originally posted by TG12345

Of course not. I'm not the one who claims they have been continuously decreasing in size, and I don't believe the person who made that claim was a prophet.
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

In that case, why don't you just get lost? Stop trying to disprove Islam and to discredit the holy Prophet of God (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). I wish I could use stronger language on this forum.

Tell you what, instead of telling me to get lost and lamenting the fact you can't talk on this forum like you can talk on the street after coming out of a nightclub... why don't you prove to me that people in fact had been decreasing continuously in stature until the time of Muhammad? There is so much historical evidence. It should be a cinch for a man of your great intelligence to prove me wrong and once and for all show that between the time of Adam and the time of Muhammad, people had been continuously getting smaller! Go ahead!


 
Originally posted by TG12345


He was an intelligent man and he sincerely believed he was serving and following God. However, some of the things he said were clearly false. This is one of them.
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

It's only your opinion. So you can keep it, no probs. He was only a warner so those who want to believe then believe and those who want to disbelieve then disbelieve. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala told Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) not to cry for the disbelievers as hi only duty was to convey the message.

Perhaps. What we know for certain is that God didn't tell Muhammad that people had been continuously getting smaller between the creation of Adam and his time.
 
[/QUOTE]
Originally posted by TG12345

Does your faith allow you to assume you will enter Heaven?
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

No. What I meant was that ALL humanity from Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) to whoever the last person to die will be in rows in front of our Maker before Judgement. I was just hoping that I'd get a glimpse of him so I can see what the father humanity looked like. :)
Thanks for clarifying. Hopefully if this is the case you won't be sitting between Ramses II and a Roman 5th century centurion, whose bodily appearance would contradict what you believe God revealed to Muhammad.


Originally posted by TG12345

If you really believe this to be true, you may want to consider to start acting like a Muslim when you interact with non-Muslims.
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I'm trying ringo. I'm really trying hard. But when I come across people like you who has zero knowledge of Islam and trying to preach it to Muslims it makes my blood boil. That's when I turn Mujahideen and wish there was a bomb nearby.

Wow, what a way to insult your religion. You are claiming that "mujahidin" are people who blow people up who debate with Muslims on an internet forum. If Robert Spencer was reading this, it would give him only more ammunition for his attacks on Muslims. Fortunately, I know that most Muslims do not act the way you do. I am beginning to doubt how serious you actually are about your faith.

BTW my name is not "ringo".

Originally posted by TG12345

However, if you really want to get to Paradise and see Adam and Moses and others of God's followers, you need to put your faith in Christ.
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I really want to see Paradise ringo, hence the reason for my conversion. At least I have 1 chance of being forgiven now. I don't associate anybody with God Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Maker of heaven and earth. To Him belongs all the dominion and Majesty. There is none comparable to Him and he forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills.
 

You don't know who God is, unfortunately. You are right about one thing. He is the greatest, and He does punish and forgive whom He wills.
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

He is indeed the greatest! Blessed be His Name!


Edited by TG12345 - 02 February 2013 at 4:20pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 02 February 2013 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by TG12345

 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

He is indeed the greatest! Blessed be His Name!
 
Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) or the One True God?
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 02 February 2013 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by TG12345

 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

He is indeed the greatest! Blessed be His Name!
 
Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) or the One True God?

The One True God is Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit, like He is both Almighty and All-Merciful
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 2:46am
Originally posted by TG12345


The One True God is Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit, like He is both Almighty and All-Merciful
 
Shirk!
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 6:30am
Originally posted by TG12345


The One True God is Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit, like He is both Almighty and All-Merciful
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Shirk!

Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

No, I am merely stating the reality of who God is.

You are denying Him and what He has done for you.


BTW care to return to the topic we were discussing? I have provided more evidence that people have definitely not been decreasing in height up to the time of Muhammad. Is there anything you can say to disprove that?

Or are you going to continue to ignore obvious historical evidence to the contrary and go on asserting that you believe God told Muhammad something that turned out to be obviously not true?


Edited by TG12345 - 03 February 2013 at 6:31am
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by TG12345


The One True God is Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit, like He is both Almighty and All-Merciful
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Shirk!

Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

No, I am merely stating the reality of who God is.

You are denying Him and what He has done for you.


BTW care to return to the topic we were discussing? I have provided more evidence that people have definitely not been decreasing in height up to the time of Muhammad. Is there anything you can say to disprove that?

Or are you going to continue to ignore obvious historical evidence to the contrary and go on asserting that you believe God told Muhammad something that turned out to be obviously not true?
 
I've already answered your silly question in my first reply on this thread. It's not my fault you have the comprehension skills of a 2 year old (sorry to insult all 2 year olds as they can be quiete intelligent).
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by TG12345

The One True God is Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit, like He is both Almighty and All-Merciful
 
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Shirk!

Originally posted by TG12345


 Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

No, I am merely stating the reality of who God is.

You are denying Him and what He has done for you.


BTW care to return to the topic we were discussing? I have provided more evidence that people have definitely not been decreasing in height up to the time of Muhammad. Is there anything you can say to disprove that?

Or are you going to continue to ignore obvious historical evidence to the contrary and go on asserting that you believe God told Muhammad something that turned out to be obviously not true?
 
Originally posted by AbuLoren


I've already answered your silly question in my first reply on this thread. It's not my fault you have the comprehension skills of a 2 year old (sorry to insult all 2 year olds as they can be quiete intelligent).


No you didn't.

You stated that King Tutankhamun was a teenager when he died, and hence would have probably grown taller. You also told me I can't present data that compares "a few generations", and gave the example of a child, his dad, and grand dad.

I affirmed you may be right about King Tut. I then showed you that the Ancient Egyptians and Roman soldiers whose heights we were examining lived something like 1500 years apart.

I will post my response again. I am making it both italic and bigger so you won't miss it like you obviously did last time.


Unlike king Tutankhamun, Ramses II was not a teenager when he died. He was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

He lived 700 years before Rome was a Republic and almost 1200 years before it became an Empire. Yet he was shorter than the average Roman soldier. The book describing the height of Roman soldiers being 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet was written in the 4th century AD.

Another interesting discovery is that of the Terracota Army- thousands of life sized statues of Chinese soldiers made during the time of Emperor Qin, who lived in the 3rd century BC. The statues of the men range from 5 feet 8 inches to 6 feet 2 inches, with the commanders being 6 feet 3 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

Ramses II was shorter than them, too. So was his father, Seti I who was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.reference.com/browse/Seti+I

Nesyamun was an Egyptian pagan priest who lived in 1100 BC. His mummy was 5 feet 6 inches.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/articles/2008/08/14/history_nesyamun_feature.shtml


King Thutmose the IIIrd, who lived in the 15th century BC (prior to Tutankhamun, Ramses II, the Roman Army or Nesyamun)... was barely 5 feet tall.

http://ancienthistory.netscype.com/article/thutmose-iii-interesting-facts

Lindow Man, a mummy of a man who lived between 2 BC and 119 AD in Great Britain, was 168 centimetres, or approximately 5 feet 6 inches tall. Yet only 3-4 centuries afterwards, the average height of Roman soldiers ranged from 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet!


And Muhammad claimed people have been getting shorter throughout history up to his time!


You responded by getting mad and telling me I have the comprehension skills of a 2 year old.

In your zeal to show how st**id I am, you misspelled the word quite. It isn't spelled quiete, it's spelled quite. Wink

If you have anything to add to the conversation other than insults, go ahead. You are clearly unable to prove my arguments wrong, and therefore need to resort to your old tactic of using insults.

If that's how you deal with problems, go ahead. Just make sure you spell properly, especially in a sentence when you are mocking someone else's intellectual capabilities. LOL


Allah Akhbar!


Edited by TG12345 - 03 February 2013 at 7:36pm
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