IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: A question for Muslims

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Originally posted by TG12345

There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits 
tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants 
existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that 
Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth.
Have you never read the bible? The whole Judeo-Christian principle is based on the fall of Adam and Eve from heaven to earth after the 'original sin'. If you go back and re-read the bible you will see that they were living in paradise, God even came to see them in the garden.

However, what I want to examine is what Muhammad said afterwards, namely
 that people have been decreasing in stature/size/height since the 
creation of Adam up until the time Muhammad spoke these words.
Obviously if Adam (Alayhi Salaam) was created 60 cubits then it is very plain that humanity has been decreasing in size. If you can find a 90 feet man then you can say that mankind has NOT been decreasing.  

If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of 
Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that 
Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an 
empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier?

Clearly,
 people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time 
of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this 
evidence with Muhammad's words?
What is the point of comparing people born within a space of a couple of thousans years? Height increases and decreases for various reasons. The main factor being diet. Nations that enjoy success in trade and wealth are bound to rise in height due to the readily available food that is on offer.
An example is when the British fought the Indians in the 18th century, they claimed the people there, in the North West Frontier were giants. They were undoubtedly taller than the British. The British people were shorter in the 18th century than they are now because of the wealth and hence the food that is available to them.

Another example is the Japanese. The modern Japanese enjoy American junk food and this has resulted in these people growing in height.

Your data is useless as we need the evidence to compare people who are 90 feet tall, so if you don't have that evidence then the likelihood IS that people are decreasing in height.

As a last point I hope you are not expecting people to decrease in size to a point where there will be people 1 - 1 1/2 foot tall walking around the earth.

The hadiths you've posted tells me how amazing the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) really was, he was given knowledge and wisdom that is truly amazing. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing 90 feet tall Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) on Judgement Day Insha'Allah.

[/QUOTE]

Author	Message
Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:10am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth. Have you never read the bible? The whole Judeo-Christian principle is based on the fall of Adam and Eve from heaven to earth after the 'original sin'. If you go back and re-read the bible you will see that they were living in paradise, God even came to see them in the garden. However, what I want to examine is what Muhammad said afterwards, namely that people have been decreasing in stature/size/height since the creation of Adam up until the time Muhammad spoke these words. Obviously if Adam (Alayhi Salaam) was created 60 cubits then it is very plain that humanity has been decreasing in size. If you can find a 90 feet man then you can say that mankind has NOT been decreasing. If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier? Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words? What is the point of comparing people born within a space of a couple of thousans years? Height increases and decreases for various reasons. The main factor being diet. Nations that enjoy success in trade and wealth are bound to rise in height due to the readily available food that is on offer. An example is when the British fought the Indians in the 18th century, they claimed the people there, in the North West Frontier were giants. They were undoubtedly taller than the British. The British people were shorter in the 18th century than they are now because of the wealth and hence the food that is available to them. Another example is the Japanese. The modern Japanese enjoy American junk food and this has resulted in these people growing in height. Your data is useless as we need the evidence to compare people who are 90 feet tall, so if you don't have that evidence then the likelihood IS that people are decreasing in height. As a last point I hope you are not expecting people to decrease in size to a point where there will be people 1 - 1 1/2 foot tall walking around the earth. The hadiths you've posted tells me how amazing the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) really was, he was given knowledge and wisdom that is truly amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing 90 feet tall Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) on Judgement Day Insha'Allah. [/QUOTE]
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:16am
	*Originally posted by Rational* *Originally posted by TG12345* The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches Now that's short. I can imagine the entire Roman army gathered and fighting a fierce battle on tiny horses, in the back garder. I wonder how many Romans you could fit in a Mini Well that made my day. Typos can be fun.
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:19am
	*Originally posted by TG12345* OK, I am derailing my own thread temporarily but I really need to ask you... when you were a kid did you watch the Smurfs? LOL that was one of the coolest shows ever!!!! Hi TG, I am sorry your thread is so derailed but I am having such fun reading this. I loved the smurfs, and now I am picturing little Roman smurfs on horseback fighting battles. Edited by Caringheart - 01 February 2013 at 10:02am
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:21am
	*Originally posted by Rational* *Originally posted by TG12345* OK, I am derailing my own thread temporarily but I really need to ask you... when you were a kid did you watch the Smurfs? LOL that was one of the coolest shows ever!!!! Yup i used to watch those little blue things in arabic! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycsUllvZ9gs Wow Rational, that's cool. You had the smurfs in arabic?
	Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever
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Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 181	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 1:10pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Wow Rational, that's cool. You had the smurfs in arabic? Yeah, When I found that video on youtube it brought back some memories. I still remember those voices. ~25 years ago!
	الله
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Rational Senior Member Joined: 28 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 181	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 1:13pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* I'm really looking forward to seeing 90 feet tall Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) on Judgement Day Insha'Allah. Insha'Allah brother.
	الله
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TG12345 Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 281	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 3:01pm
	*Originally posted by TG12345* There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Have you never read the bible? The whole Judeo-Christian principle is based on the fall of Adam and Eve from heaven to earth after the 'original sin'. If you go back and re-read the bible you will see that they were living in paradise, God even came to see them in the garden. Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. Nowhere does the Bible say that the Garden of Eden was located in Heaven. It also doesn't instruct believers to insult non-Christians. As a "former Christian", you should know these things. *Originally posted by TG12345* However, what I want to examine is what Muhammad said afterwards, namely that people have been decreasing in stature/size/height since the creation of Adam up until the time Muhammad spoke these words. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Obviously if Adam (Alayhi Salaam) was created 60 cubits then it is very plain that humanity has been decreasing in size. If you can find a 90 feet man then you can say that mankind has NOT been decreasing. If Muhammad said it had decreased in size, maybe he would have been right. But he didn't say that. He said that humanity had been decreasing in size continuously from the creation of Adam to his time. *Originally posted by TG12345* If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier? Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words? *Originally posted by Abu Loren* What is the point of comparing people born within a space of a couple of thousans years? Height increases and decreases for various reasons. The main factor being diet. Nations that enjoy success in trade and wealth are bound to rise in height due to the readily available food that is on offer. An example is when the British fought the Indians in the 18th century, they claimed the people there, in the North West Frontier were giants. They were undoubtedly taller than the British. The British people were shorter in the 18th century than they are now because of the wealth and hence the food that is available to them. Another example is the Japanese. The modern Japanese enjoy American junk food and this has resulted in these people growing in height. Your data is useless as we need the evidence to compare people who are 90 feet tall, so if you don't have that evidence then the likelihood IS that people are decreasing in height. Why do you need to find someone 90 feet tall to disprove what Muhammad said? He didn't say that people are smaller than Adam was. He said that from the time of Adam to the 7th century, they had been continuously decreasing in size. That statement is quite simply not true. People's heights had gone up and down between the time of Adam's creation and the 7th century AD, due to a variety of factors. However, they have not been decreasing continuously. My "useless data" indicates that at least for several centuries between the creation of Adam and the 7th century, the height of human beings at time rose and at other times decreased. This shows that people have not been continuously been getting smaller until the 7th century. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* As a last point I hope you are not expecting people to decrease in size to a point where there will be people 1 - 1 1/2 foot tall walking around the earth. Of course not. I'm not the one who claims they have been continuously decreasing in size, and I don't believe the person who made that claim was a prophet. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* The hadiths you've posted tells me how amazing the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) really was, he was given knowledge and wisdom that is truly amazing. He was an intelligent man and he sincerely believed he was serving and following God. However, some of the things he said were clearly false. This is one of them. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* I'm really looking forward to seeing 90 feet tall Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) on Judgement Day Insha'Allah. Does your faith allow you to assume you will enter Heaven? If you really believe this to be true, you may want to consider to start acting like a Muslim when you interact with non-Muslims. However, if you really want to get to Paradise and see Adam and Moses and others of God's followers, you need to put your faith in Christ. Edited by TG12345 - 01 February 2013 at 3:19pm
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nospam001 Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 150	Posted: 01 February 2013 at 3:27pm
	This is the best topic I've read in weeks! I was too old for the Smurfs myself but the kids have a DVD of 'Night at the Museum' (1 or 2, i forget which). It features some Roman soldiers that are about 6 inches high. TG - I love the diminishing font size.
	God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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