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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Topic: A question for Muslims
    Posted: 01 February 2013 at 3:43am
This is a question to Muslims on Islamicity.

Salaam Alaikum. I hope you are well.

I found some interesting hadiths that contain something Muhammad said. They come from Muslim and Bukhari, so unless it can be proven otherwise, I will assume they are sound.

Muhammad evidently stated that Adam was 60 cubits tall and that people have been decreasing in height continuously from the day of Adam's creation to the time Muhammad stated the words below (sometime in the 7th century AD).

) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah created adam in his complete shape and form (directly), sixty cubits (about 30 meters) in height. When He created him, He said (to him), "Go and greet that group of angels sitting there, and listen what they will say in reply to you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your offspring." adam (went and) said, 'As-Salamu alaikum (Peace be upon you).' They replied, 'AsSalamu-'Alaika wa Rahmatullah (Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you) So they increased 'Wa Rahmatullah' The Prophet added 'So whoever will enter Paradise, will be of the shape and form of adam. Since then the creation of adam's (offspring) (i.e. stature of human beings is being diminished continuously) to the present time." (Book #74, Hadith #246)

Search the word adam cubits in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)


(2) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adarn, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day. (Book #040, Hadith #6809)

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...earch_word=all


Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation.


Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

There is no way to prove or disprove the claim that Adam was 60 cubits tall. As both the Bible and Quran teach, there were times when giants existed on the earth. Unlike the Quran, the Bible does not teach that Adam lived in heaven prior to his coming to earth.

However, what I want to examine is what Muhammad said afterwards, namely that people have been decreasing in stature/size/height since the creation of Adam up until the time Muhammad spoke these words.

Are you aware that the height of people in Europe between the middle of the first century and the 7th century (when Muhammad began preaching)
fluctuated and significantly increased at times- like between the fourth and sixth century? Although people in Europe in the 7th century were shorter than people in the 6th century, they were in fact taller than those living in the 1st and 3th centuries.

Scroll to page 13 to see the table showing human height between the 1st and 18th centuries AD.

http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/wwl/...omillennia.pdf

I am unaware of stats for Africa or Asia or the Americas or other parts of the world, but historical evidence shows that in some parts of the Europe, instead of continuously decreasing in stature from the beginning of time to the time of Muhammad, the growth of people fluctuated between the 1st and 7th century and have for the most part been on the rise.

How would you reconcile this data with Muhammad's statement that people have been decreasing in size between the creation of the world and the 7th century AD?

Another interesting fact: Tutankhamun, who lived 1332 BC 1323 BC, was 5 feet 11 inches tall.
Radiologists Attempt To Solve Mystery Of Tut's Demise

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches. The Roman Empire came into existence in 27 BC
Digital | Attic - Warfare : De Re Militari Book I: The Selection and Training of New Levies


If people have been decreasing in stature starting with the creation of Adam and up to the 7th century AD, how could it be possible that Tutankhamun who lived and died almost a milennia before Rome became an empire was slightly shorter than the average Roman soldier?

Clearly, people have not been continuously decreasing in size between the time of Adam's creation and the time of Muhammad. How do you reconcile this evidence with Muhammad's words?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Allahu Akhbar. Blessed be His Name. 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:09am
Originally posted by TG12345

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches

Now that's short. I can imagine the entire Roman army gathered and fighting a fierce battle on tiny horses, in the back garder. I wonder how many Romans you could fit in a Mini LOL


Edited by Rational - 01 February 2013 at 6:20am
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:18am
Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches

Now that's short. Can you imagine the tiny horses they were riding. I wonder how many romans you could fit in a Mini LOL

LOL my bad. The source said the average height of one of these guys was 6 feet.
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:39am
Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches

Now that's short. I can imagine the entire Roman army gathered and fighting a fierce battle on tiny horses, in the back garder. I wonder how many Romans you could fit in a Mini LOL

What's a back garder, by the way? LOL
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:48am
Back garders and 6 inch soldiers aside, how do you reconcile the fact that, despite Muhammad's teaching, historical evidence points to the fact that people have not been continuously decreasing in stature up to the 7th century AD?
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 7:24am
Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches

Now that's short. I can imagine the entire Roman army gathered and fighting a fierce battle on tiny horses, in the back garder. I wonder how many Romans you could fit in a Mini LOL

What's a back garder, by the way? LOL

It's a special garden for little people  LOL

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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 7:28am
Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

Originally posted by Rational

Originally posted by TG12345

The average height of a Roman soldier was 6 inches

Now that's short. I can imagine the entire Roman army gathered and fighting a fierce battle on tiny horses, in the back garder. I wonder how many Romans you could fit in a Mini LOL

What's a back garder, by the way? LOL

It's a special garden for little people  LOL


OK, I am derailing my own thread temporarily but I really need to ask you... when you were a kid did you watch the Smurfs? LOL that was one of the coolest shows ever!!!!
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2013 at 7:56am
Originally posted by TG12345

OK, I am derailing my own thread temporarily but I really need to ask you... when you were a kid did you watch the Smurfs? LOL that was one of the coolest shows ever!!!!

Yup i used to watch those little blue things in arabic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycsUllvZ9gs
LOL


Edited by Rational - 01 February 2013 at 8:02am
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