IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: BIBLE:NOBODY CAN DIE FOR ANOTHER'S SINS

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Experiential

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Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:03am

Christ The Messiah put an end to animal sacrifice. When you ask him to be Lord of your life you become one with God through His atonement.

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Salaam_Erin
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Posted: 19 February 2013 at 8:48am

Ezekiel and the Psalm cited were talking about sin with regard to crime and punishment, not the issue of blood atonement.

Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place.

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honeto

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Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:30pm

Originally posted by Experiential

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Christ The Messiah put an end to animal sacrifice. When you ask him to be Lord of your life you become one with God through His atonement.

You think everything is meaningless with this blah blah. Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith.
How can someone be Lord or God, when he himself has a God and a Lord. Jesus said "my God and your God" in the same Bible.
"Become one with God" you said. No one can ever be God or part of God, nor become God. God is God, we and all, everyone other than him including Jesus, Moses, David, Adam and all are only his creations, his servants. We can please God by good acts he told us to do, but we can never become God if that's what you mean. If you mean by doing good as told by God, we become righteous and closer to God, then there is nothing to argue, we believe that in Islam.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:34pm

Also do not forget the words of your own book:
Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And don't try to say that "oh he was speaking this not to his followers". It won't work!

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 20 February 2013 at 12:35pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Webber

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Posted: 20 February 2013 at 11:28pm

Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place.

LOL

Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith.

I wonder if Cain and Abel remembered Abraham while offering their sacrifices.

I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26

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Experiential

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Posted: 21 February 2013 at 9:50pm

Honeto Said

You think everything is meaningless with this blah blah. Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith.

My Reply

You are wrong. The blah blah you are referring to is based on the revelation made known to the Holy Prophet Moses. If you read the Tenakh (Old Testament) you will see.

Leviticus 17:11. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

This is a revelation far older than that of your non Jewish prophet Mohammad who came along 1900 years later. You are simply using your Muslim interpretation on a Muslim myth regarding animal sacrifice. The truth revealed by God is far older and is continuous throughout the prophets fulfilled with Jesus Christ The Messiah. Mohammad was nothing more an outsider.

Honeto Said

How can someone be Lord or God, when he himself has a God and a Lord. Jesus said "my God and your God" in the same Bible.

"Become one with God" you said. No one can ever be God or part of God, nor become God. God is God, we and all, everyone other than him including Jesus, Moses, David, Adam and all are only his creations, his servants.

My Reply

What are human beings? Just lumps of meat? We are divine. You also have God within you and can become one with Him.

The Jews of Jesus day also criticized him for claiming to be God and man.

If you read John 10:34 –

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?

Jesus is quoting the Prophet King David from Psalm82.6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Honeto Said

We can please God by good acts he told us to do, but we can never become God if that's what you mean. If you mean by doing good as told by God, we become righteous and closer to God, then there is nothing to argue, we believe that in Islam.

My Reply

Good religious deeds, words or behavior will never be enough for a Holy God. Do you think you can do it without being in a faith relationship with The One Most Holy God? Because you can’t. Your ablutions and good religious deeds can never be enough to tip the scales.

Edited by Experiential - 21 February 2013 at 9:51pm

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Posted: 22 February 2013 at 11:48am

Originally posted by Salaam_Erin

Ezekiel and the Psalm cited were talking about sin with regard to crime and punishment, not the issue of blood atonement. Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place.

i quoted the 'nobody can die for another person's sins' part from the Bible. Who said somebody else died in Jesus place? think before you post.

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Posted: 22 February 2013 at 11:50am

what is bllood atonement? and is it not related to sin, crime and punishment?

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Topic: BIBLE:NOBODY CAN DIE FOR ANOTHER'S SINS
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Author	Message
Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 265	Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:03am
	Christ The Messiah put an end to animal sacrifice. When you ask him to be Lord of your life you become one with God through His atonement.
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Salaam_Erin Male Christian Groupie Joined: 30 October 2012 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 19 February 2013 at 8:48am
	Ezekiel and the Psalm cited were talking about sin with regard to crime and punishment, not the issue of blood atonement. Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:30pm
	*Originally posted by Experiential* <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Christ The Messiah put an end to animal sacrifice. When you ask him to be Lord of your life you become one with God through His atonement. You think everything is meaningless with this blah blah. Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith. How can someone be Lord or God, when he himself has a God and a Lord. Jesus said "my God and your God" in the same Bible. "Become one with God" you said. No one can ever be God or part of God, nor become God. God is God, we and all, everyone other than him including Jesus, Moses, David, Adam and all are only his creations, his servants. We can please God by good acts he told us to do, but we can never become God if that's what you mean. If you mean by doing good as told by God, we become righteous and closer to God, then there is nothing to argue, we believe that in Islam. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:34pm
	Also do not forget the words of your own book: Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And don't try to say that "oh he was speaking this not to his followers". It won't work! Hasan Edited by honeto - 20 February 2013 at 12:35pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Webber Senior Member Joined: 09 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 112	Posted: 20 February 2013 at 11:28pm
	Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place. LOL Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith. I wonder if Cain and Abel remembered Abraham while offering their sacrifices.
	I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 265	Posted: 21 February 2013 at 9:50pm
	Honeto Said You think everything is meaningless with this blah blah. Animal sacrifice is not to pay for one's sins, it is to remember the sacrifice Abraham offered when he was tested for his faith. My Reply You are wrong. The blah blah you are referring to is based on the revelation made known to the Holy Prophet Moses. If you read the Tenakh (Old Testament) you will see. Leviticus 17:11. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. This is a revelation far older than that of your non Jewish prophet Mohammad who came along 1900 years later. You are simply using your Muslim interpretation on a Muslim myth regarding animal sacrifice. The truth revealed by God is far older and is continuous throughout the prophets fulfilled with Jesus Christ The Messiah. Mohammad was nothing more an outsider. Honeto Said How can someone be Lord or God, when he himself has a God and a Lord. Jesus said "my God and your God" in the same Bible. "Become one with God" you said. No one can ever be God or part of God, nor become God. God is God, we and all, everyone other than him including Jesus, Moses, David, Adam and all are only his creations, his servants. My Reply What are human beings? Just lumps of meat? We are divine. You also have God within you and can become one with Him. The Jews of Jesus day also criticized him for claiming to be God and man. If you read John 10:34 – Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? Jesus is quoting the Prophet King David from Psalm82.6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' Honeto Said We can please God by good acts he told us to do, but we can never become God if that's what you mean. If you mean by doing good as told by God, we become righteous and closer to God, then there is nothing to argue, we believe that in Islam. My Reply Good religious deeds, words or behavior will never be enough for a Holy God. Do you think you can do it without being in a faith relationship with The One Most Holy God? Because you can’t. Your ablutions and good religious deeds can never be enough to tip the scales. Edited by Experiential - 21 February 2013 at 9:51pm
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 22 February 2013 at 11:48am
	*Originally posted by Salaam_Erin* Ezekiel and the Psalm cited were talking about sin with regard to crime and punishment, not the issue of blood atonement. Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place. i quoted the 'nobody can die for another person's sins' part from the Bible. Who said somebody else died in Jesus place? think before you post.
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 22 February 2013 at 11:50am
	*Originally posted by Salaam_Erin* Ezekiel and the Psalm cited were talking about sin with regard to crime and punishment, not the issue of blood atonement. Besides, Muslims believe someone else died in Jesus' place. Even though they say nobody else can die in another's place. what is bllood atonement? and is it not related to sin, crime and punishment?
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